A question about guilds (and Knightly Orders in particular)

**Renart Regal** · April 03, 2008, 07:41 AM

As the title implies, my question is about how guilds decide where and when to set up shop in any of your cities (not that they're unwelcome or anything, but it's slightly confusing nonetheless).

Here's why I ask. As examples, I'll cite my runs as Poland and the HRE.

Poland: Cracow (really nice city in terms of econ, I must add, and this was in 5.4 hotfix 2) was doing really well after the first king bit the bullet and his son was crowned king. This was also right when the walls expanded to become a bigger city, and I had already dictated that the Jewish population could immigrate in so I could make Cracow a center of trade (well, more so than it is already). However, to my surprise, it wasn't the Merchant's Guild that I was hoping for, but it was the Knights Templar! If I were writing that scene as part of an AAR, a key feature would have been the new king's expression of "WTF?" and "DUDE! Where do I sign?"

So I gave 'em the 2000 florins to set up shop. Then later when I expand again, they also expand to the major chapter house (didn't play long enough to see if they'd set up their HQ there), so the Kingdom of Poland not only had a healthy cavalry tradition as it was, but they now also had heavy foot knights and heavy mounted knights at their beck and call (assaulting cities became a lot easier, I'll tell you).

HRE: Not much to type on this one, since I just started with them (and I DON'T envy their starting position; ech!). This is the latest patch, 5.5 by the way. Now, I've only taken one city with the field army sitting around (did it in one turn as to cut down on costs, the Reich's broke as it is and I'm trying to just make an income while praying that the nobles DON'T want another danged buffet!). Now, quite randomly, the Teutonic Knights offer to set up shop in Frankfurt! And I'm looking at the Ritter Ordenstaat sitting next to the Baltic between Lithuania and Poland and at this new chapter house in Frankfurt, and now I'm just plain confused (though theme-wise I think it's awesome; them German volk gotta stick together!).

So this is why I ask; what exactly determines who goes where? I guess I could go so far as say that Poland IS on the way to the Holy Land for pilgrims to make some deposits, and the Teutons are just cozying up to fellow Germans for a center of power, but I'd like at least a rough idea as to when to expect these if I can.

Thanks again!

Added note: Oh, and on a random note, is there any way to designate the heir to the crown, or is it completely out of my hands?

**Furin** · April 03, 2008, 08:55 AM

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ghlight=guilds

heir: hardcoded, not possible

**born2dive67** · April 04, 2008, 04:42 AM

Well I find the same enjoyable but misplaced event myself. Just got Templars chapter house, no crusade has been called thus no one has even been on crusade, whats better is this happened around 1191 while i am playing as Scotland. After finding a post that explains the guilds I would have to imagine there is an error made in the trigger event, or an error made in the acquisitions of points for this guild event to pop up.

**Renart Regal** · April 04, 2008, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by born2dive67

Well I find the same enjoyable but misplaced event myself. Just got Templars chapter house, no crusade has been called thus no one has even been on crusade, whats better is this happened around 1191 while i am playing as Scotland. After finding a post that explains the guilds I would have to imagine there is an error made in the trigger event, or an error made in the acquisitions of points for this guild event to pop up.

Well, I suppose one way is the chivalry of the ruler/governor? I think that was one of the reqs mentioned in triggering points per turn was five chivalry at least. Still confuses the heck out of me, but SCOTLAND? Edinburgh's a way aways from the Holy Land! It's like the Knightly orders are branching out like fastfood chains. :hmmm:

**Cultist** · April 04, 2008, 07:37 AM

maybe they(the templars) read the Dan Brown crap and are searching for the holy grail in scotland

**Creslin** · April 04, 2008, 08:17 AM

well the templars did have recruitment centers in alot of cities and at the time dlv starts we are already almost 100 years after the first crusade so the templars would have been well established.

**born2dive67** · April 04, 2008, 12:15 PM

@Renart Regal
that would be a very close guess, but he only has 4 chivalry, needs 5 to get those 5 points. and from start time to when i got it would actually work, So maybe someone changed it from 5 chivalry to 4 or less and yeah that would work! now its got me thinking about delving into the scripting to see what that chivalry value is set at.

**born2dive67** · April 05, 2008, 08:43 PM

ok here it is and looks like your the winner

Trigger 0196_Governor_Chivalry
WhenToTest SettlementTurnStart

Condition GovernorAttribute Chivalry > 3

Guild woodsmens_guild s 5
Guild knights_of_santiago_chapter_house s 5
Guild st_johns_chapter_house s 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0197_Governor_Chivalry2
WhenToTest SettlementTurnStart

Condition GovernorAttribute Chivalry > 3

Guild templars_chapter_house s 5
Guild teutonic_knights_chapter_house s 5

what these say is every turn you have a govoner with greater than 3 chivalry in this city/castle you get 5 points awarded towards one of those guilds, so right about 20 turns you have 100 points for that guild which awards you the first level building for that guild. the templar guild just happened to be the first to answer the call it looks like plus also depending upon faction is another factor.

**Renart Regal** · April 06, 2008, 01:21 AM

Ahhh, that explains it. Thanks! Though correct me if I"m wrong, but while the Templars are just about everywhere, the Teutons are German, the Knights of Santiago are Iberian, then does that make the Hospitallar order a mediterranean based chapter?

**born2dive67** · April 06, 2008, 06:30 AM

no same as the Templars, unless thats been changed, that link mentioned earlier is excellent reference about all guilds and how to get them

**SkyAnimal** · April 06, 2008, 02:44 PM

As some ancilliary information:

Playing as the Kingdom of Jerusalem in the Crusades expansion, when the kids came of age, they often had exquisite characteristics, and I think I realized the Creative Assembly developers included environment to the kids upbringing and personal characteristics when he enters "adulthood."

Kids that new how to fight, govern, lead people, it was pretty neat. And my system of "bumping" generals between cities really seems to work and get good retinue and traits to all my leaders.