Javelins !? o.O How to change ammo-per-unit value

[Vangar]

In my english campaign, I'm fighting the Irish at the moment. It's just plain ridiculous. I mean, every single Irish unit has javelins, fine with me. But how many javelins can a man carry? They got dozens and it takes merely a few seconds half of my army is anihiliated before they even meet. Especially sieges are just impossible to win when assaulting an Irish city without ridiculous high casaulties. When standing on high ground (hillside) they even outrange my longbowmen. I'd like to change javelin ammo, not because I think it's too hard, but it's just ridiculous. These men carry 20 javelins into battle, probably slung on their backs - no way. 3 or 5 per unit should be enough, cavalry could carry a few moe. In rome, the legionaries had 2 javelins per man and still could be devestating.

EDIT: I'm using DLV 5.4 including the Submod. And, after changing these values, do I have to start a new campaign?

[Werebear]

"do I have to start a new campaign?"
no. this changes are save game compatible

"How to change ammo-per-unit value"
EDU file (export_descr_unit.txt)

exemple

type Cuman Horse Archers
dictionary Cuman_Horse_Archers ; Cuman Horse Archers
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type Light
accent Mongolian
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Cuman_Horse_Archers, 32, 0, 0.25
mount fast pony
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, cantabrian_circle, mercenary_unit
formation 1.6, 3.4, 3, 6, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 6, 1, cav_composite_arrow, 120, 25 (amount of missile ammunition per man)(, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 7, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 10, 2
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 5, 0, flesh
;stat_armour_ex 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, -10, 1
stat_mental 9, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 320, 135, 75, 55, 320, 4, 80
armour_ug_levels 0
armour_ug_models Cuman_Horse_Archers
ownership slave, byzantium
era 2 byzantium
;unit_info 3, 6, 1

[Werebear]

"But how many javelins can a man carry?"

Good question....

exemple

Wiki

Spain

The Almogavars were a class of Aragonese infantrymen armed with a short sword, a shield and two heavy javelins, known as assegai. The equipment resembled that of a Roman legionary and the use of the heavy javelins was much the same.

[Vangar]

Where do I change these values? I modded rome, but I never mod anything in medieval. It's the "export_descr_units.txt" ?

EDIT: Thanks born2dive67 ^^

EDIT 2 : Thanks a lot isilendil, didn't see your edit the time I posted ^^'

[Vangar]

"But how many javelins can a man carry?"

Good question....

exemple

Wiki

Spain

The Almogavars were a class of Aragonese infantrymen armed with a short sword, a shield and two heavy javelins, known as assegai. The equipment resembled that of a Roman legionary and the use of the heavy javelins was much the same.

Roman style, that seems to be quite resonable. I mean, just try it for yourself - you just cant carry a dozen javelins and still carry your regular fighting equipment. Legionaries used to carry their pila with their shield hand, but most likely dropped them in order to fight properly if they hadn't already thrown them at their enemies. Pure javelin units, such as Irish kerns, can carry a bit more, since javelins are their primary weapon. They can sling some around their backs or carry a few more in their hands, but the most important aspect is that these don't carry shields or sidearms at all (except for a little dagger for self-defense). They have to be mobile, which is impossible while carrying a few dozen spears around. Cavalrymen can sling a bag containing their javelins on their horse, it should be possible to store 5 to 8 or something inside these, I think.

[born2dive67]

I think all you would nned to do is go into the export_descr_unit.txt and read the first section what your looking for is the stat_pri it will tell you which entry on the stat_pri line is ammunition, then just go through the list of units and edit the Javelins.

first of course make a backup of that txt, then change to your hearts content.

not sure if you need to start a new campaign or just play through though

oh good someone else knew the answer

[ivanhoex]

I think all you would nned to do is go into the export_descr_unit.txt and read the first section what your looking for is the stat_pri it will tell you which entry on the stat_pri line is ammunition, then just go through the list of units and edit the Javelins.

first of course make a backup of that txt, then change to your hearts content.

not sure if you need to start a new campaign or just play through though

oh good someone else knew the answer

edu changes does not require new campaign. are savegame compatible


but you have to delete all .bin on /data/text/..

[hekk]

Well in 5.5, I've tried out the Irish, and I've got to say that they are the most annoying faction to play in DLV due to the fact that almost every unit is a nissile unit. They have far too many missiles to throw and its almost impossible to attack or charge with the skirmishers. Sometimes when the skirmisher are attacked, they do nothing other than stand there and get slaughtered.

It would be great if it were more easier to change from throwing missiles to going melee.

And I think it would be better to have a couple of Kingdoms' Irish units.

[Vangar]

I modified the file that every javelin unit which is primarily used as a skirmisher (javelinmen, kerns) carry 5 jevelins per man, every infantry unit using javelins secondary to "soften up" the enemy carries 2 javelins, light skirmisher cavalry 8 and heavy cavalry 5.

This should be more accurate I think.

[dacrazymofo]

Well in 5.5, I've tried out the Irish, and I've got to say that they are the most annoying faction to play in DLV due to the fact that almost every unit is a nissile unit. They have far too many missiles to throw and its almost impossible to attack or charge with the skirmishers. Sometimes when the skirmisher are attacked, they do nothing other than stand there and get slaughtered.

It would be great if it were more easier to change from throwing missiles to going melee.

And I think it would be better to have a couple of Kingdoms' Irish units.

>.>

[ImKyleJames]

They should have more than 2.. at least. I'd say 15, you have to remember they came to fight with their javs, they could reuse some perhaps realistically or even pull some off a dead guy to throw. Plus.. ur men SHOULD DIE!

[ivanhoex]

junpei can you upload that file plz? i will try to make more or less what you did and may use your data as a parameter on wich unit is skirmisher and wich uses 2 heavy javs

[Vangar]

junpei can you upload that file plz? i will try to make more or less what you did and may use your data as a parameter on wich unit is skirmisher and wich uses 2 heavy javs

Here you are, I hope I figured it out right.

@kennylz: Every javelin unit carries 8 in the unmodified version, and the skirmishers now carry 5, it's not too much of a change, plus they are powerful enough I think. Especially when you play them, by bolstering your army with some Irish kerns mercenaries you can butcher two entire units of enemies before they even react (it's a AI flaw though). Even armoured knights are decimated in a matter of seconds.

Those units who carry 2 javelins came to fight with their primary wargear, the javelins are most likely meant to be thrown and stuck in enemy shields, like the Romans did, so the enemy troops have to drop their shields because they get too heavy or unpractical. Of course they could pick javelins up, in case they didn't break, but giving this reason you could also give unlimited ammo to those slingers in Rome TW. I just assume that they can't do it because their javelins broke or something, because what's the chance of an entire unit, every single man, can pick up his javelin undamaged? Plus they wouldn't pick them up anyway, they'd just stand there and throw some more. Boomerang javelins XD

EDIT: In theory you also had to give these units like 20 javelins when defending a settlement, since they can place many of them on the castle walls, but they had to lose these once they leave the walls and so on - so, the best you can probably do is to just let them have their initital gear.

[Kennylz]

If you dramatically lower the amount of javelins they can carry, make sure to significantly up the damage they can do so that they don't go from over-powered to powerless.

A javelin flying at you is incredibly lethal, so do less, but make those two per man actually count, unlike they do currently.

[dacrazymofo]

You guys tried holding alt and right clicking? causes units to charge an enemy without using range weapons you kno...

[born2dive67]

You guys tried holding alt and right clicking? causes units to charge an enemy without using range weapons you kno...

Last i remember, he wanted to adjust them cause he is being decimated by them, not using them.

[hekk]

You guys tried holding alt and right clicking? causes units to charge an enemy without using range weapons you kno...

Wahh? Can't believe I didn't know that... :hmmm:

Have a +rep!

[born2dive67]

oh, been reading so many i must have been thinking of someone elses post, my bad lol

[ivanhoex]

look

im quite tired coz of no sleeping at all...

i have finished an entire auto calculator sheet for missiles.

its ready to be filled with whatever number you feel necesary in the variables.



i have yet to see the edu junpei uploaded so im maybe wrong about some units destination (melee jav or skirmish jav).



i have yet to get these values down to my EDU and to test them properly.



i dont know yet if config_battle accuracy factor is meant to affect javelins.

if it does, try vanilla settings with the attached config and see what happens.
maybe you wont be forced to drop the amount of ammo from 8 to 5.

indeed i reccomend to use my sheet, set the weapon filter to JAV and edit all those JAVS that have LESS than 8 ammo.

i have doubled javs ammo transported on horse, so beware of those... but i have also topped it to 8 (one irish cav was the only that carried more than 8 anyway, coz they are mostly considered half melee)





btw, no chance your longbows had same range as the irish javs, javs have all 55 range and your longbows 160. its quite a difference... even in vanilla DLV settings...





also, how to add this numbers back to the EDU: (and i quote isilendil here):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Cuman Horse Archers
dictionary Cuman_Horse_Archers ; Cuman Horse Archers
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type Light
accent Mongolian
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Cuman_Horse_Archers, 32, 0, 0.25
mount fast pony
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, cantabrian_circle, mercenary_unit
formation 1.6, 3.4, 3, 6, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 6, 1, cav_composite_arrow, 120 (range of the weapon), 25 (amount of missile ammunition per man), missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 7, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 10, 2
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 5, 0, flesh
;stat_armour_ex 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, -10, 1
stat_mental 9, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 320, 135, 75, 55, 320, 4, 80
armour_ug_levels 0
armour_ug_models Cuman_Horse_Archers
ownership slave, byzantium
era 2 byzantium
;unit_info 3, 6, 1

PD: found a lot of wrongs on irish stats... next EDU I release would represent quite an improvement overall XD