Too many temples

[Monthy]

Hi,

I think that XGM have too many temples. In my campain I always make some cities military center and other trade center. There is no need to build high level barrack in all cities.

I suggest better solution (simple and logic):

Zeus - public order bonus (happines),
Athena - public order (law),
Demeter - faster city grow
Poseidon - high level ship and more exp. for ships. and allow to build high level blacksmith
Ares - exp. for units
Hermes - trade bonus

You should specify what level of trade bonus have:
caravan, grain export, temple etc.

And also:
Education, study, theatre building AND TEMPLES sholud convert city civilization. Education building should also allow to build diplomat and spy.

Military barrack - assasin 1, 2, 3... level of exp.

Add some poor units to first level military barrack.

[TM Is Back]

Those many temples are there so that if there is well a large temple to Baal, you dont have to destroy it and build one to Athena all over again.

ANd for the other things oyu propose, that would chance the whole mod and it doesnt seem much fun either.

[chazap]

Those many temples are there so that if there is well a large temple to Baal, you dont have to destroy it and build one to Athena all over again.

ANd for the other things oyu propose, that would chance the whole mod and it doesnt seem much fun either.

wait....am i understanding this right? are you saying that as the Greeks if i conquer say a Carthaginian city....i don't have to destroy their huge religious temple???? i just simply built over it? will this cause unrest? penalty down the road? any info you can provide would help...

[Monthy]

Thanks for the suggestions Monthy,

Not a bad idea, though most factions are already supplied with a range of lower quality units.

Here is my suggestions:

Rework barracks:
I level
Peltasts, Doryphoroi, Slingers.
Remove Doryphoroi from palace. I dont know why they are there?

II level
Militia Phalangites, Thureophoroi, Militia Cavalry + I level barrack of course

IV level
add Sacred band to the oryginal list

Greek Hoplite - should be one turn build
Remove Spartan Hoplite - there was no such unit in history
Hypaspists should not use juvelins! It will make Thorakitaj more important and helpful unit.
Marinian Archers - missile attack = 8 or 9 (expert unit)
Militia Cavalry has small shield on the card. 4 points of shield defence is too high, decrese to 2. This is that same unit like Peltasts.

[TM Is Back]

Here is my suggestions:

Rework barracks:
I level
Peltasts, Doryphoroi, Slingers.
Remove Doryphoroi from palace. I dont know why they are there?

II level
Militia Phalangites, Thureophoroi, Militia Cavalry + I level barrack of course

IV level
add Sacred band to the oryginal list

Greek Hoplite - should be one turn build
Remove Spartan Hoplite - there was no such unit in history
Hypaspists should not use juvelins! It will make Thorakitaj more important and helpful unit.
Marinian Archers - missile attack = 8 or 9 (expert unit)
Militia Cavalry has small shield on the card. 4 points of shield defence is too high, decrese to 2. This is that same unit like Peltasts.

Level 1 i think recruiting Doryphoroi from the palace is a good idea, cause not every settlement begins with a barracks.

Level 2= ok

Level 4 no problem for me

Greek hoplites 1 turn, absolutely.
Remove Spartan Hoplite - there was no such unit in history. Check the newest patch, it has already changed.
Hypaspists should not use juvelins! It will make Thorakitaj more important and helpful unit. Leave it this way i say.
Marinian Archers - missile attack = 8 or 9 (expert unit). Perfect
Militia Cavalry has small shield on the card. 4 points of shield defence is too high, decrese to 2. This is that same unit like Peltasts. Yea i agree it is to high. Killing them with archers take's far to many arrows now.

[Scutarii]

Here is my suggestions:

Rework barracks:
I level
Peltasts, Doryphoroi, Slingers.
Remove Doryphoroi from palace. I dont know why they are there?

II level
Militia Phalangites, Thureophoroi, Militia Cavalry + I level barrack of course

IV level
add Sacred band to the oryginal list

Greek Hoplite - should be one turn build
Remove Spartan Hoplite - there was no such unit in history
Hypaspists should not use juvelins! It will make Thorakitaj more important and helpful unit.
Marinian Archers - missile attack = 8 or 9 (expert unit)
Militia Cavalry has small shield on the card. 4 points of shield defence is too high, decrese to 2. This is that same unit like Peltasts.

Hoplites are 2 turns to represent their fading fighting style and out-of-date-ness. Therefore there are less of them, which makes a longer training time make sense.
As TM said, check latest version.
A missile attack of 8 or 9 is absurd, considering 5 is an average archer. 7 in XGM represents 'elite', 5 normal, and I beleive Athenian Marines are already 7, so leave it. If you really want to raise it, modify the files yourself.
I would say make Thorikitai better, rather than getting rid of Hypasists' Javelins. Thorikitai are undervalued though.

[Monthy]

Hoplites are 2 turns to represent their fading fighting style and out-of-date-ness. Therefore there are less of them, which makes a longer training time make sense.

So why Hypaspists, Heavy Phalangites and Sacred Band are one turn? Its doesn't make sense.

As TM said, check latest version

I use now ver. 5.5.16 But when I finished my game I will instal latest wersion.

A missile attack of 8 or 9 is absurd, considering 5 is an average archer. 7 in XGM represents 'elite', 5 normal, and I beleive Athenian Marines are already 7, so leave it.

I disagree... In my ver. Slingers have 5, Archers 7 (they dont 'elite'). Syrian archers have 9 or 10 (I dont remember right now). So I think that 8 or 9 for Marines is OK.

[TM Is Back]

wait....am i understanding this right? are you saying that as the Greeks if i conquer say a Carthaginian city....i don't have to destroy their huge religious temple???? i just simply built over it? will this cause unrest? penalty down the road? any info you can provide would help...

Indeed. If there is a huge tempel to Baal you can build a pantheon to some Greek god just over it. It has the same retinue, same bonusus etc. It is btw all told in the readme.

No it will not cause unrest.

I qoute from the readme:

All temple types can now be upgraded by all factions, and all of the Olympian gods are now represented. In vanilla RTW it was usually a good idea to demolish existing temples in captured settlements, and to start building your own. In XGM you should always consider whether upgrading might be a better option.

[DimeBagHo]

Thanks for the suggestions Monthy,

I think that XGM have too many temples.

The number of temple types is pretty much the same as vanilla (I think I removed one type). The difference is that, while most factions can only build 4-5 temples from scratch, they can upgrade any temple.

You should specify what level of trade bonus have:
caravan, grain export, temple etc.

Good idea.

Education, study, theatre building AND TEMPLES sholud convert city civilization. Education building should also allow to build diplomat and spy.

Doesn't work unfortunately. We had something like that in the past and, at least some of the time, building one type with a bonus would cause other types to disappear.

Military barrack - assasin 1, 2, 3... level of exp.

There is already a similar bonus from the Market buildings.

Add some poor units to first level military barrack.

Not a bad idea, though most factions are already supplied with a range of lower quality units.

[Suppanut]

Although many temple are similar in bonus, main different of them lie in trait generate by temple. These made all types of temple diverse than you think. Retinue from each temple also different too.

[Kara Kolyo]

@Monthy - your syrians have such high attack because of chevrons and/or weapons upgrade. Check them in custom battle and you'll see that their attack is like the other elites. As for the 2 turn hoplites - they might get to 1 turn, but as already was mentioned too many times - they were fading away while units like hypaspists were the new fashion and should be used more.

[Monthy]

As for the 2 turn hoplites - they might get to 1 turn, but as already was mentioned too many times - they were fading away while units like hypaspists were the new fashion and should be used more.

OK I understand your point... but its not logical to make them 2 turn. Hypaspists has similar armour and are 1 turn. To show that old fasion style Hoplite were fading away I suggest to increase their price.

[Unknown Soldier]

Ah but Monthy - then you would over use them.

By 168 BC all of the Hellenized world had converted to using the Macedonian Pike style of fighting even Sparta - with Thoratikai/Theurophoroi supporting. Hypaspists are a reaction to the Roman/Iberian Style of fighting which conquered the mediteranean.

[Dom9127]

Personally I think Archers are a little too powerful, imo they should be nerfed a little bit.

[Unknown Soldier]

Usually with 2 Chevrons and a weapon upgrade Syrian Archers get a 10 missile attack - all you need do is recruit the mercs (2 Chevron start) then retrain/upgrade their weapons in a city with a black smith or the right temple.
4+ units = devestation/rain of fire etc.

Same goes for cretans/merchant marines etc..

[Monthy]

Hi,

so we have then:
missile attack
Slingers 4
Archers 5
Peltasts 6
elite Archers 5 (with stronger armour like Marinians or Syrian Archers)

is this logic...? not. Thats why I suggest to increse elit archer missile attack to 7 or more.

And second thing:
Now we have
barrack lvl. II Militia Pgalangite
III Phalang
IV Armoured Phalang

according to this should be:
barrack lvl III Greek Hoplite
IV Sacred Band

I play very long time and never build Sacred Band! (My Empire capture Italy, Carthage, Nubia, Egipt, Selucid Empire, Thracia, Pontus, Armenia and Saba) Its hard to build V lvl. barrack to get Sacred Band now.
Its too bad that we couldn't use this very good looking unit.
(I know it's old style fight fashion but... its still too bad)

OK I want too apologise for my poor English. I still lernig, thank You for Your indulgence.

[Kara Kolyo]

@Monthy - but all elite archers already have base missile attack of 7 - it gets higher from exp. and weapon upgrades. only the athenians have attack of 5.
IMO the sacred band should stay at lvl. 5 barracks. If you want to recruit them just leave the seleucids or ptolemaics alone for like 20 -30 years and then capture Antioch or some other huge city.

[atraps]

only the athenians have attack of 5.

so the Athenian Marines arent considered elite archers?

[Scutarii]

Monthy: Well, the IV barracks for Carthage is Sacred Band Cavalry, so its taken up by a good unit anyways. Its not that hard to get the V level barracks, just turtle at the start of the campaign and get it in Carthage and Hadrumetum.