Stop Screwin Around & Protect Your General

[danzifuge]

has anyone else noticed that general's have a short lifespan when their bodyguard unit gets involved in the battle. i've lost two faction leaders so far because of this. both times, it only took one charge into the fray and these were the only two times that i did charge in with the bodyguard cavalry. i'm new to roma surrectum, but this is a rather nasty surprise. my bodyguard unit had barely lost 15 men when my generals/faction leaders fell. these bodyguard aren't too good at their job, seems to me.

[century x]

Thats a little of bad luck. I've done many charges with my generals and the body guards due take damage but I can't remember a time when what yo just explained happened. And i've been playing this mod for ages now.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

As a rule I press the horn botton right before a charge hits. Your general holds back looking sexy blowing the horn or whatnot and his bodyguard takes the impact. I rarely lose anyone now.

Also be sure to attack units that are already engaged, and from the rear or side. Cavalry is generally only effective if you charge, withdraw, charge, withdraw, etc.

It also helps if you recreate a line before each charge. Hope this helps.

[leif_erikson]

I've lost my general a couple of times when passing through my own phalanx!!! That is quite odd.

[^Gr8^Xander]

As a rule I press the horn botton right before a charge hits. Your general holds back looking sexy blowing the horn or whatnot and his bodyguard takes the impact. I rarely lose anyone now.

I do the same thing. Never lost a general because of it.

[Nellup]

The problem is that the AI doesn't care about the generals life, so if the AI is controlling your reinforcements the general often end up dead from that stack.

[ptg]

Another thing to watch out for is your generals hit point mods. If he is overweight or old he will fall more easily. I've had a few die in their first charge.

On the other hand I've had a Governor (suffixed 'the Brave' due to a temple of Mars in the city) fight literally to the last man in a city assault. He was the last man standing. As it should be!

[Octavius-Augustus]

As a rule I press the horn botton right before a charge hits. Your general holds back looking sexy blowing the horn or whatnot and his bodyguard takes the impact. I rarely lose anyone now.

Also be sure to attack units that are already engaged, and from the rear or side. Cavalry is generally only effective if you charge, withdraw, charge, withdraw, etc.

It also helps if you recreate a line before each charge. Hope this helps.

Great tip, Fuzz! I always wondered how can I use the bodyguard with my general staying idle. And yes generals win battles if they charge right in the rear of a wavering phalanx. In previous versions of RS, even that was deadly to cavalry.

On the other hand I've had a Governor (suffixed 'the Brave' due to a temple of Mars in the city) fight literally to the last man in a city assault. He was the last man standing. As it should be!

Oh, these 'Brave' guys really start to annoy me, especially since I build the temple of Mars in all cities to get the nice bonus to units produced there. If I have ten generals, five to six or more are above 'popular hero' level. I like the fact that when a general stays in a settlement he becomes educated and stuff, but that's definately not the trait to represent this. I hope it's fixed in an upcoming patch or something.

[Nick_Since_1985]

It yust seems you had some bad luck, In my recent Iberian campaing I was attacked by 3 stacks of Cartaginians in one turn (1 stack at a time), needless to say my stack was butcherd (but I still won all 3 battles), If it wasn't for my general, the outcome would be extremly diffrent. From the 100 men bodygards he had in the begining only 7 remained...

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

The worst it with Medieval 2... I once ordered all my cavalry over some of my own spikes without noticing it.

Bye, King and three units of knights.

[leif_erikson]

Right it happened with me too. I had some archers and they had the spike capability and initially I thought it might be useful and cool. And when the time had come to tip the balance of battle in my favor I've order my seven star king to charge the enemy and he died on my own spikes... that is stupid because he charged from the back of the line and those spikes were facing the enemy so even in a real combat situation you will be able to pass them from behind with no problem but not in MTW2

[pcaravel]

As a rule I press the horn botton right before a charge hits. Your general holds back looking sexy blowing the horn or whatnot and his bodyguard takes the impact. I rarely lose anyone now.

Nice trick, I'll try it myself.

[Astaroth]

I've once lost a general by charging into the back of a LIGHT SPEAR UNIT!!! I'm not even talking about a phalanx here nor at all about elite pikemen or front charging into them etc.

His unit charged into the BACK of the unit and it were mere levy spearmen (gauls I think). Not only did he die but he actually fell the second his horse *touched* the back of one of the gauls, LOL wtf!

Hasnt happened to me before tho.

Still, imo RS bodyguards seem a bit less tough than vanilla ones iirc, a vanilla bodyguard of like 50 men could take almost anything down, aside from decent-good phalanx units and even vs those the bodyguards only lost if they front charged...

A RS bodyguard unit however loses completely or at least a high number of its men when facing a weak levy SPEARMEN unit.. ??!

I mean of course spears are good vs cavalry, but how the heck do 30 very well armoured and trained elite horsemen lose to 90-100 crappy spearmen who have nothing much more than a very small leather (?) shield and a sucky spear, no armour at all.

Same goes for all cavalry in RS IMO... does anyone know why?

I dont like it that even the best of all cav gets trashed by the worst of all spearmen, EVEN when you charge into their backs!

The only thing even elite cav is good for is for charging in the backs of light spear units and insta run away, rinse repeat; for beating non-spear units but even there cav isnt so good, how does a fully armed horsemen, elite etc, not completely waste an average swordsman who uses a gladius?! He might win but often with IMO too high casualities =/

Cav is ofc also good for killing routers and skirmishers/archers

[danzifuge]

I've once lost a general by charging into the back of a LIGHT SPEAR UNIT!!! I'm not even talking about a phalanx here nor at all about elite pikemen or front charging into them etc.

His unit charged into the BACK of the unit and it were mere levy spearmen (gauls I think). Not only did he die but he actually fell the second his horse *touched* the back of one of the gauls, LOL wtf!

Hasnt happened to me before tho.

Still, imo RS bodyguards seem a bit less tough than vanilla ones iirc, a vanilla bodyguard of like 50 men could take almost anything down, aside from decent-good phalanx units and even vs those the bodyguards only lost if they front charged...

A RS bodyguard unit however loses completely or at least a high number of its men when facing a weak levy SPEARMEN unit.. ??!

I mean of course spears are good vs cavalry, but how the heck do 30 very well armoured and trained elite horsemen lose to 90-100 crappy spearmen who have nothing much more than a very small leather (?) shield and a sucky spear, no armour at all.

Same goes for all cavalry in RS IMO... does anyone know why?

I dont like it that even the best of all cav gets trashed by the worst of all spearmen, EVEN when you charge into their backs!

The only thing even elite cav is good for is for charging in the backs of light spear units and insta run away, rinse repeat; for beating non-spear units but even there cav isnt so good, how does a fully armed horsemen, elite etc, not completely waste an average swordsman who uses a gladius?! He might win but often with IMO too high casualities =/

Cav is ofc also good for killing routers and skirmishers/archers

i agree 100%. the defensive skill of these guys needs to be tweaked up just a bit. in battle if you're able to outflank your enemy, you should be able to exploit it and follow up with charge. but i find myself cautiously holding back my cavalry now until near the end of the battle afraid of the high casualties i would surely sustain if i had charged into the enemys backs early in the battle. their use is still pivotal but minimal. i have to imagine the steppe tribes might as well kiss it goodbye.

[Flippy]

I don't even use cav anymore , the upkeep for them is the same as a inf units who have a longer lifespan and get more kills, i don't really have a big problem with leaders dieing on me.

[Octavius-Augustus]

General's bodyguard should not be an uber-unit, smashing everything in it's way. It's supposed to protect the General in case of an attack. They are not meant for charging anyway, IMO. In my battles the bodyguard does very well when charging weak units in the rear. I have no idea how the case that you explained occurred. Maybe the general was old or had some bad traits... Some AI generals seem almost invulnerable when they frontally charge my Legios! Having some infantry support, the Gauls especially trash a whole cohort before the general falls and his army is slaughtered. I think cavalry does need a little adjustements, but in direction of toning them down instead of up. Heavy cavalry crush my troops in an instant, frontally. A charge from the back should be deadly, but not the front! Light cav is OK, though.

[Nellup]

That's one of my main Gripes with M2TW - the bodyguard units can smash into a unit of spearmen from the front and still cause the spearmen to rout. Talk about Overpowered.

[leif_erikson]

That's one of my main Gripes with M2TW - the bodyguard units can smash into a unit of spearmen from the front and still cause the spearmen to rout. Talk about Overpowered.

and same guy dies easly when passing through your own troups or barricades...

[Caius Antonius]

That's one of my main Gripes with M2TW - the bodyguard units can smash into a unit of spearmen from the front and still cause the spearmen to rout. Talk about Overpowered.

Your general might as well die in that situation.

[Nellup]

Your general might as well die in that situation.

He never does seem to though - he only ever seems to die if in combat with an enemies' bodyguard.