Ukraines public decline NATO membership

[Nikitn]

Angry Ukrainians reject NATO

Thousands of Ukrainians are holding a noisy, anti-NATO demonstration in central Kiev ahead of George Bush’s visit. Washington supports Ukraine's push to join NATO, but it’s left the nation deeply divided. More demonstrations are promised if NATO accepts Ukraine's membership proposal at its summit in Bucharest on Wednesday. Thousands of protestors are now heading towards the U.S. Embassy.

Opinion polls conducted in Ukraine over the last 15 years show that more than half of its population reject the alliance.

Almost 62% of Ukrainians voted against NATO membership. Even an ‘information’ campaign has not helped the government.

Despite these striking figures, Ukraine’s government continues to push for the membership.

Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko stressed the economic benefits of co-operation and reminded people that they will be the ones to make a final decision in a referendum.

“Politicians will not decide for the people of Ukraine. No one will take us there by force. At this stage of our relations, we are talking only about enhancing co-operation. Russia’s cooperating with NATO as well. I don’t see anything to worry about now,” she said.

But as the saying goes, ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin said that possible admission of Ukraine into the alliance would put Russia’s security at risk and that “one can’t theoretically exclude the possibility that Russia will have to point its warheads at Ukrainian territory”.

Another former Soviet republic, striving to join NATO, is Georgia.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has warned NATO members against preventing the country moving towards the alliance at the upcoming summit in Bucharest.

Saakashvili said it would appease Russia and grant Moscow effective veto power over NATO membership.

Two weeks ago Saakashvili was in the U.S. seeking support for obtaining the so-called Membership Action Plan. It's a programme that advises future NATO members how to meet the organisation's standards.

However, Georgia's chances of receiving the Action Plan face opposition from some older NATO members over fears the country will be a security taker, not provider. That's because of the existence of two frozen conflicts on Georgian territory - the breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

There are also concerns among NATO members that strong opposition to the idea by Russia could escalate tensions in Europe.




Link to the website:
http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/22852

[Enemy of the State]

If the people of Ukraine do not wish to join NATO, we are not in a position to force them. Russia's opinion that they own Georgia and Ukraine though is nothing new. Let the Georgians and Ukrainians decide themselves.

[danzig]

If the people of Ukraine do not wish to join NATO, we are not in a position to force them. Russia's opinion that they own Georgia and Ukraine though is nothing new. Let the Georgians and Ukrainians decide themselves.

Pretty much if the actual people of Ukraine dotn want to join more power to them but the bits and pieces of Russia threats of missiles targeting or inflaming relations shouldnt factor into it. If Ukraine wants to join NATO it has every right and to hell with Russian objection but if it doesnt want to (as it appears) then that is also their right.

[King Edward III]

If Ukraine wants to join NATO it has every right and to hell with Russian objection

.Czar in 5..4..3..2..1

[wilting]

Hmm. Its' worth noting that recents polls have shown almost the exact same proportion in favour of EU Membership, meaning this is based on a specific anti-NATO rather than anti-Western sentiment. I would hazard a guess that opinion of the US in particular plays a large role in impressions of NATO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7212672.stm

[danzig]

Hmm. Its' worth noting that recents polls have shown almost the exact same proportion in favour of EU Membership, meaning this is based on a specific anti-NATO rather than anti-Western sentiment. I would hazard a guess that opinion of the US in particular plays a large role in impressions of NATO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7212672.stm

Could, I mean they might see it as having to then get fully involved in say Afghanistan but it could also just be as simple as they want economic ties but not a military one.

[wilting]

It always comes down to the economy.

Unwillingness to antagonise Russia might be factor as well, the EU being viewed as less 'partisan'. Whether or not it actually is so is a matter for rather subjective political theory, but Russia doesn't seem to take it too seriously, however ill-advised that might be.

[Nikitn]

Pretty much if the actual people of Ukraine dotn want to join more power to them but the bits and pieces of Russia threats of missiles targeting or inflaming relations shouldnt factor into it. If Ukraine wants to join NATO it has every right and to hell with Russian objection but if it doesnt want to (as it appears) then that is also their right.

Then why did so many Ukraines regard NATO as a imperalistic block who would only force them into conflicts?

I think i red that at BBC, but i cannot prove it..:S

[Каие]

Good choice, i think NATO is a bad idea, to which not everyone is committed or trust anyway. Increasing NATO;s power makes it much worse then the Eu.

[Carach]

Good choice, i think NATO is a bad idea, to which not everyone is committed or trust anyway. Increasing NATO;s power makes it much worse then the Eu.

what in the hell are u on about? the EU and NATO arent even similar...

[Каие]

what in the hell are u on about? the EU and NATO arent even similar...

Actually lately they are both becoming very similar but thats not what i said anyway, read it properly next time. I said if NATOs power was increased it would be worse than the EU power increased.

[Carach]

Actually lately they are both becoming very similar but thats not what i said anyway, read it properly next time. I said if NATOs power was increased it would be worse than the EU power increased.

1: how are they becoming similar? NATO remains a self defence military alliance, EU is an economic zone that is pushing towards uniting europe into a super-country kind of thing. In what way are they possibly similar or getting more similar?

2: So u imply EU power is a bad thing for the world? How? And how does a self defence alliance gaining some members become a bad thing other than making russia feel bad (which lets face it.. isnt a hard thing to achieve these days)

I read the post properly but u appear to compare the EU and NATO together by talking about their power - the 2 are completely different, do not work in the same way, are not for the same purpose...and so forth...Maybe you should adjust your post instead?

you have lots of things to learn in your life, my friend. its neither "just joining an alliance" nor it is "false". Europeans themselves do not necesserily want to see Ukraine in NATO, for example. the more you put into the bucket of honey, the more the bucket of honey tastes like .

u didnt even really address his post, czar.

Who doesnt want ukraine in nato anyway?

[Kiljan Arslan]

Yes so your point is? If they don't want to joine thats great.

[bushbush]

where is my beloved comrade Czar? haven't seen him for awhile.

[Каие]

Yes so your point is? If they don't want to joine thats great.

Is that aimed at me?

[Kiljan Arslan]

Nope I made it I made it at the OP.

[BoJaN]

what in the hell are u on about? the EU and NATO arent even similar...

[Scar Face]

To be honest, I don't see how the publics opinons matter. They elect a Government, the actual administration of the country is uh...left to the Government. Including matters like this. If the people wish to have a say in who their country aligns themselves with- they can do it through elections. A Referendum and an opinion poll is a tad....stupid. The masses do not have the knowledge and foresight to determine such things, not directly.

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

To be honest, I don't see how the publics opinons matter. They elect a Government, the actual administration of the country is uh...left to the Government. Including matters like this. If the people wish to have a say in who their country aligns themselves with- they can do it through elections. A Referendum and an opinion poll is a tad....stupid. The masses do not have the knowledge and foresight to determine such things, not directly.

So what you are basically saying is - To hell with democracy!
"Trough elections" is hardly a secure way for people to determine such important issues for they are separate from and way much more important then the daily politics and should thereafter be addressed in a referendum.

Yes, the masses are generally speaking - stupid, but then again, politicians are - generally speaking - CORRUPTED.
And knowledge and foresight are much more likely to be found in the local folks who love their country and cherish it's independence and therefore will act (vote) out of sincere conviction and in their own best interest, while their leadership will more likely act out of their need for further bribes. Just look at the political specter in Ukraine today, then compare it with the numbers pro and con NATO membership - and you'll see what I mean.

[Scar Face]

So what you are basically saying is - To hell with democracy!

No. This is representative democracy, not direct Democracy. It is actually fully consistent ideologically for the Government to ignore its people, yet still be a Democracy. Sadly...I suppose...

"Trough elections" is hardly a secure way for people to determine such important issues for they are separate from and way much more important then the daily politics and should thereafter be addressed in a referendum.

I disagree, simply. If they wish for the Government to follow their views, be it Foreign Policy, economics, internal policy etc- they can do so through elections. Simply a difference in opinons between you and I.

Yes, the masses are generally speaking - stupid, but then again, politicians are - generally speaking - CORRUPTED.
And knowledge and foresight are much more likely to be found in the local folks who love their country and cherish it's independence and therefore will act (vote) out of sincere conviction and in their own best interest, while their leadership will more likely act out of their need for further bribes. Just look at the political specter in Ukraine today, then compare it with the numbers pro and con NATO membership - and you'll see what I mean.

They may vote out of sincere conviction and love for their country, but that does not make it an informed opinion. Does not make it the correct one. Beyond that, the Ukraine is not a direct democracy. They vote in the Government to Govern the country; that means they make decisions, without having to check back with the populace every time. Major decisions are fairly frequent, it would be an incredibly ineffective system if they were to hold a referendum for every major treaty, like NATO, which is a military alliance. The Government does as it sees fit, and will succeed or fail come the next election.