syracuse very underpowered

[Druhtinaz Hailaz]

even with the syracusian hoplite i still must protest on the fate of the syracusians compared to barbarian factions which have a average 40 attack and on the other account the gaullic swordsman having a charge bonus of 20 compared to most of the hoplites fielded by Syracuse ...for instance the normal hoplites have no armor piercing ability seriously sapping their strength...why dont all of the hoplites have this ability considering what does a pike really have over a normal hoplite spear....? im now approaching endless stacks of gauls who have fought with no one but the iberians whom they crushed and now after years of prosperity they turn there massive horde against my recent additions of the italian peninsula they flow like and endless river from the north genoa...a city i gave them to hold their swords from our throats and still they came ...while still at war with rome at patavium which i made rebel through my special ops teams of spammed spys and assassins ....but to continue .... rome now regained control of patavium ....my fiercest opponent to date is still the gauls with their belgae men of hell lol so in the end my argument is why are Syracuse's elite units not at a 40 attack or at least armor piercing like their macedonian counterpart

[icydawgfish]

I believe they are supposed to be that way so when playing Pergamum for example, Carthage can easily conquer Sicily. They are meant to be a player only faction that provides a bit of a challenge.

[Druhtinaz Hailaz]

iv'e rarely seen syracuse wiped out by carthage... and pergamum for instance in my campaign controls all of egypt, selucia, armenia, pontus and after eliminating the parthians with the help of bosporus ...pergamum declared war on bosporus so we shall see if they wipe them out.....anyways my concern now is if i should revert to the save before i conquered italy because all it really got me was endless war on the po river.....im trying really hard but maybe its my tactics or army composition can anyone suggest a good way to win against the gauls with sryacuse...ide appreciate any help

[icydawgfish]

Well, Pergamum isn't the point. The point is they are weak so the AI Carthage can conquer the AI Syracuse.

[danzifuge]

i'm just started playing as syracuse and i obliterated the epirotes and all the free peoples on my way to them. the hoplites of syracuse do just fine for me. i'm afraid if their hoplite stats were raised anymore i'd get a superiority complex.

the only complaint i have is just the lack of distinguishing skills/armor/abilities of the hoplites. there's no real point in recruiting the lesser hoplites. they're not faster or have any other different ability. the better hoplites just have incrementally better attack/armor/def. skill/shields. the difference between their costs in upkeep/recruitment cost is slight.

i must say i'm loving the peltasts in this mod. i keep at least 4 of these units in my army as i find in any large battle each of them can score over 100 kills easily. archers seem to do even more damage although their stats don't reflect it. my last battle they scored 273 kills. must be some hidden attribute. i really should get around to building that archery range, but i hardly get a chance as my population/public disorder is blowing up despite the suburbs/villages i'm building.

also, a question. what buildings are required to build the next building after barracks? i've upgraded to governor's villa (5k population)? but i don't see a barracks to build.

[Caius Antonius]

In most of my campaigns, Syracuse kicks Carthage out of Sicily and usually rules Sicily altogether. And that's pretty historical in my opinion. Sometimes they even go to the surrounding islands, such as Corsica or Sardinia. Rarely (it happened once to me) they go as far as North Africa, but only to be kicked back a few turns later.

[Mjr Phil]

also, a question. what buildings are required to build the next building after barracks? i've upgraded to governor's villa (5k population)? but i don't see a barracks to build.

For Romans I need to have appropriate agriculture (grain fields or whatever this is). I would expect you need the same. If some building has a dependency, it is visible by hovering mouse cursor over it's icon in building list (town page->top small icon in bottom left corner)

[Nellup]

For Romans I need to have appropriate agriculture (grain fields or whatever this is). I would expect you need the same. If some building has a dependency, it is visible by hovering mouse cursor over it's icon in building list (town page->top small icon in bottom left corner)

Yep for most (all?) factions your need to build up the farming infrastructure to get access to higher level barracks.

[EternalSlayer]

Someone posted a screenie of AI Syracuse taking over Italy I believe.

[Nellup]

The main advantage that the Syracusians have, even when controlled by the AI, is that if they can take over Sicily, then they have a very strong economic base to fuel expansion.
Of course, using the RTW exe then they don't do an awful lot after having taken Sicily, but using BI or ALEX then they can invade Italy, Africa or the islands in the med.

EDIT: here's a link to the screen EternalSlayer is talking about: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...postcount=1275

[Caius Antonius]

Oh yeah, forgot to say that I'm using the alexander engine. Really makes the difference.

[Druhtinaz Hailaz]

im just saying that when you take the hoplites off guard mode its like you order the push because they just start a moshpit and keep pushing forward and when facing romans who spam first cohorts they just get stabbed to pieces because they start off with a low attack and then i heard somewhere that they lose an additional 4 attack points because they have a spear fighting infantry so what im gonna have to be forced to do is just deploy massive armies of armoured hoplites....because at least they have a sword that they can switch to because the sword hoplites suck just as much as hoplites. so again for tactics wise do you keep it on guard mode or what because im facing alot of gauls and they bring not just their normal warband but elite soldiers all throwing javelins and poor me chose a faction that decidedly so ...has no balls against later enemies. i mean no thureophoroi or thorakitai? i mean just look at the power house carthage is with almost all their units with a 40 attack geez all im saying is its hard to finish a campaign when my armies are getting chewed up in the field ...it makes me wanna spam full armies of mounted skirmishers where i retreat when i run out of ammo.... ....btw im playing Hard\hard

[Coldcall]

Syracuse always defeats Carthage in Sicily, at least in all the campaigns Ive played.

[Nick_Since_1985]

I'am sorry but I've found the Syracusian campaign way to easy...

Yust use more soldier, better tactiqs and mercenaries...

[Druhtinaz Hailaz]

well as its going now i just spammed armies outta frustration 9 armored hoplites and 9 sword hoplites and 2 peltasts ive yet to see what will happen now as every city in the italian mainland has about an equal number of militia hoplites and archers one 9 and one 10 so yea i know im starting to become cheap but hey its really of no consequence if the italian mainland falls because ill still have my economic power house of every island in the sea except for lesbos,myletene or w/e ...which wont last for long and the other being cyprus which is egypt's last holding.<not a concern......also i have carthage north african holdings with saldae the border ...i was at war but i recently bought them peace at 104000 yikes!:hmmm: but anyways i also have greece superior which has the border with athens and corinth as my border cities....i recruit mecrs all the time btw because im still dealing with some 90,000 a turn not bad i geuss

[Gotthard]

First off, switching to the sword is BAD. Any hoplite that switches to the sword is inferior. The sword attack is MUCH lower than their spear attack would lead you to believe. Second, pushing is GOOD, so long as you keep your forces concentrated. My typical army is 8-12 Syracuse hoplites, 4-8 Syracusian marines, and 4-6 of the best cavalry I can field. One the barbarian hordes are engaged with your hoplites, hit them from the back with the cavalry. When you fan out with your hoplites, they engage more units, and the SLIGHTEST contact with an enemy unit means a MUCH larger % chance to rout when hit with a cavalry charge in the rear. The other nice thing is that even if they don't rout, you have cavalry+infantry in the middle of their units, so you'll have more attacks of opportunity.

[Druhtinaz Hailaz]

so whats better armored hoplites or syracusian hoplites...the reason i havent fielded any marines yet is i haven't finished building the place to recruit them yet ...i am like 2 turns away.....so i use experience 3 peltasts which work wel now that i put them in front of the hoplites lol i had them in back of them and was wondering why my front line took so many casualties from what ive seen recently the enemy doesnt come at me in line anymore ..im using alx exe. so it seems like they always use the oblique formation where they are spread out in a diagonal pattern always trying to flank me lol some of the finest AI ive ever seen..when they spread out it screws me up especially when im trying to delegate who will attack who ....sometimes its alittle much for my turtle speed...i like battle clearly meet and with the cavalry rounding the formation and destroying it...oh i do miss a faction with pikes

[danzifuge]

so i use experience 3 peltasts which work wel now that i put them in front of the hoplites lol i had them in back of them and was wondering why my front line took so many casualties from what ive seen recently the enemy doesnt come at me in line anymore ..im using alx exe. so it seems like they always use the oblique formation where they are spread out in a diagonal pattern always trying to flank me lol some of the finest AI ive ever seen

. i heard about these friendly fire situations, but i always thought they were related to slingers low trajectories and not so much javs. archers shouldn't have a high rate of friendly fire, right? does friendly fire only occur when your units shine white right? i wish there was a guide on friendly fire.

i've tried putting my javs in front but i don't get off but one or two volleys before their cavalry comes charging at em. and by the time i've maneuvered them to the flanks and rear of the enemy, the battles almost over and their cavalry will almost always follow me wherever i go so it's an endless game of cat and mouse maneuvering those guys while i have to allocate one or two infantry units from the front line to protect them. i'm not sure it's worth it to attempt to pull off this maneuver, so is friendly fire by firing behind your front line really that bad? what is the ratio between friendly fire and enemy kills on average and for differently armored units?

[Druhtinaz Hailaz]

well its not really a problem of friendly fire but facing enemy troops that loose a missle before they charge i hate those units especially the pilum damn that Ap missle that halves your armor! i wish you could adapt your forces to were and who you were fighting... but thats only wishing right...like when youre playing as certain factions that never uses chainmail lol? you can survive and win as any faction in the game but for someone to conquer the world without a unit that looses missles and wears chainmail is beyond me sometimes like say if i just took over italy shouldnt i be able to wear their lorica segmentatas.........or oooo how about spartans with cataphract armor and pilums ooooo that would be the best unit infantry wise

[danzifuge]

i did some tests. it turns out friendly fire by firing from behind your units is pretty bad. half of slingers shots hit your own men. while a 1/5 of javelins shots will hit your own men. i'm unsure of the results from archers as i think my tests with them might have been compromised.