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    Default 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Found an interesting article, just how life is now in the EU and how others (non-EU members) see it and experience it. Added some pictures for make it more detailed.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    ABOARD THE WARSAW-BERLIN EXPRESS — Once upon a time, when rail travelers crossed the Polish-German frontier, their passports and belongings were scrutinized by stern Polish and German border police. Even in the 1990s, it felt like a movie from the 1930s.

    These days, the Polish police are gone for good. The Germans are taking a long coffee break.

    During a recent westbound trip, two German border policemen got on the train at the frontier. They headed straight for the first-class coach and sat down. One read the newspaper; the other plunged into a romantic novel. They didn't look up until two hours later when the train rolled into Berlin.

    Asked if they were going to check anyone's passport, the one reading the newspaper replied with a curt "nein."

    This is the new "borderless Europe," where it is possible to hop on a train or bus and travel from Portugal to Poland without showing your passport to anyone. Most of the frontier border posts in Western Europe have been gone for nearly a decade. Europe's eastern half is rapidly catching up. Only the gentle beeping of your mobile phone—and the arrival of a text message telling you that you've entered a new service area—lets you know that a national border has been crossed.

    In the wake of the 20th Century's two world wars, which saw the rival powers of Europe invade, bomb, occupy and otherwise devastate each other's territory, the grand experiment of doing away with internal borders is, quite simply, astounding.

    One of the European Union's guiding principles is "the free movement of people" across the borders of its 27 member states. Principle became reality in 1995 with the implementation of the Schengen agreement to eliminate border controls between seven countries in Western Europe. The list of countries joining the Schengen Zone has increased steadily since. Britain and Ireland are the notable holdouts.

    Last December, nine members were added—Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Malta. The zone now stretches from the Atlantic to the EU's border with Russia, a territory of 1.65 million square miles and 400 million people.


    Austrian and Hungarian government members help remove the border crossing


    Traditionally, European borders have been symbols of state sovereignty and order. Mountains and rivers formed logical borders, but where nature was insufficient, statesmen and tyrants drew lines on maps, often with little regard to logic or nature.

    Language and ethnicity became another basis for defining borders, but sometimes communities were so intermingled that no border made sense. This remains true in Eastern Europe, where some very old people boast that they have lived in half a dozen countries while never leaving the village of their birth.

    Iron Curtain's legacy


    Reminder of the "Iron Curtain" in physical form. Remaining wires and tanktraps between the borders of Austria - Hungary, see the the deserted watchtower in the distance (now probably removed already)




    This is all you get when you cross into Hungary (~ Republic of Hungary)


    The end of World War II led to the harshest division of Europe as the Iron Curtain split the continent in half. Germany was divided into East and West; a wall bisected Berlin, the capital.

    Behind the Iron Curtain, the facade of socialist harmony concealed some of the continent's least hospitable borders. The German-Polish border along the Oder River was always one of the nastiest. (Today's anomaly of German border police boarding the train from Poland has more to do with job security for the officers than border security for Germany.)

    The Hungarian-Czechoslovak border also had a chilly Cold War history. The Danube River forms part of the boundary between Hungary and what today is Slovakia, but the main crossing point, the Maria Valeria bridge ( See below before/after)




    linking Esztergom in Hungary with Sturovo in Slovakia, was destroyed in 1944 by the retreating German army.

    After the war, communist authorities on both sides of the Danube decided to leave it that way. It was not repaired and reopened until 2001, when Slovakia and Hungary were seeking admission to the EU.

    Before the bridge's reopening, the only Danube crossing between the two countries was the bridge linking the sister cities of Komarno and Komarom.

    A large Hungarian community lives on the Slovak side of the river; in the Slovak city of Komarno, Hungarians are the majority. When the pro-Moscow populist Vladimir Meciar came to power in Slovakia in the early 1990s, he strengthened his power base by stirring up resentment against the Hungarians.

    Ladislav Boros, 59, a Slovak resident of Komarno, blames politicians on both sides for the tensions. His family originally comes from a Slovak enclave in eastern Hungary, but after World War II, the family was forced to resettle in Slovakia.

    Boros, a gregarious man who speaks both languages, sent his children to Slovak-language schools in Komarno but is happy to cross the bridge five days a week to work in an electronics factory on the Hungarian side.

    "During the communist era," Boros recalled, "very few people were crossing the bridge. After 1989 it became easier, but you still needed a visa in your passport. When Slovakia and Hungary joined the EU in 2004, you just needed your ID card to cross the bridge. Now, with Schengen, you don't need a thing."

    Still, Boros has mixed feelings about Schengen.

    "Nobody ever said they were getting rid of borders, only the border crossings," he said. "Hungary will always be Hungary and Slovakia will always be Slovakia."

    Nationalism may still be encoded in Europe's DNA, but Robin Shepherd, an analyst at Chatham House, a London think tank, says a borderless Europe has provided a layer of protection to national minorities in countries where historically there have been tensions—Hungarians in Slovakia and Romania, for example, or Basques in Spain.

    "Being in the European Union and being a citizen of Europe gives you a whole panoply of rights and laws and memberships that you didn't have before," Shepherd said.

    "If some tinhorn nationalist like Meciar comes along and wants to break out of the civilized norms of the EU—or NATO, which is led by the U.S. — he's going to come up against some seriously powerful forces. This is ultimately what the EU has accomplished in this part of the world."

    EU as peacekeeper


    It is no coincidence that Eastern and Central Europe, with crazy-quilt borders and simmering ethnic rivalries, have triggered Europe's 20th Century wars.

    "The only way to lock down this troublesome part of Europe is to give these countries entry into the EU," Shepherd said. "Lock them into the EU, and you've locked down the possibility of the kind of violence we saw in Yugoslavia in the 1990s."

    Such ethnic rivalries are one reason that most European leaders are eager to entice Serbia into the EU.

    But the Serb leadership, still stung by the 1999 NATO air strikes and more recently by the loss of Kosovo, has been wallowing in a kind of self-imposed quarantine. Surveys show that most Serbs see their future in the EU, but a significant minority backs the government's argument that Moscow is Serbia's only true friend.

    Pozar Geler, 47, a firefighter from the Serbian border town of Subotica, has no doubt about which side he's on.

    "We need the EU," he said while sitting in a long line of cars with Serbian license plates at the border crossing into Hungary. He grew increasingly irritated as cars with Romanian and Bulgarian license plates whizzed through the lane marked "EU Members Only" — a byproduct of Hungary's EU membership.

    In Geler's lane, Hungarian border guards searched each vehicle, enforcing the Schengen agreement. Many cars were turned back.


    Hungary-Ukraine border, (Serbian border similar), with patrols along the border, Hungary being the outmost eastern section of the Schengen Border

    "We used to cross [the border] like nothing—to go shopping or to go to a restaurant. Locals like us didn't even need a passport, just an ID card," he said.

    For Geler, easy access to Hungary was key to his own identity as an ethnic Hungarian living in Serbia. The sudden withdrawal of that access is cause for alarm.

    "People feel angry and they feel isolated," he added. "Everybody can cross the border except us. It's like we are not real Europeans."
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...2.story?page=2
    Last edited by HorseArcher; March 30, 2008 at 04:57 PM.

  2. #2
    King Edward III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Yay illegal immigrants.
    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Yay illegal immigrants.
    Sorry friend. Very much legal migrants. Move to, live in, work where you like. Its' the law, so you had better get used to it.

    I can't help but think of this... and my English teachers hilarious rendition of the backwards farmer.

    MENDING WALL

    Robert Frost

    Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
    That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
    And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
    And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
    The work of hunters is another thing:
    I have come after them and made repair
    Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
    But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
    To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
    No one has seen them made or heard them made,
    But at spring mending-time we find them there.
    I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
    And on a day we meet to walk the line
    And set the wall between us once again.
    We keep the wall between us as we go.
    To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
    And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
    We have to use a spell to make them balance:
    'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
    We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
    Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
    One on a side. It comes to little more:
    There where it is we do not need the wall:
    He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
    My apple trees will never get across
    And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
    He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
    Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
    If I could put a notion in his head:
    'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
    Where there are cows?
    But here there are no cows.
    Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
    What I was walling in or walling out,
    And to whom I was like to give offence.
    Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
    That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
    But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
    He said it for himself. I see him there
    Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
    In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
    He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
    Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
    He will not go behind his father's saying,
    And he likes having thought of it so well
    He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."


    I for one am glad to live in a Europe that is no longer divided by walls or dominated by such attitudes. What did we ever gain from it? Aren't things better now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos
    Old enmities are slowly fading aways to be replaced with a another one towards all those that try to force a unity between countries that are not ready or in many cases do not even desire unity.
    Unity is not being 'forced', all evidence point to integration being pushed by economic forces and particular interests groups that benefit from it in a 'natural' process (if you get my meaning). To be blunt, integration would not be happening if it was not in the self-interest of those engaging in it.
    Last edited by wilting; March 30, 2008 at 08:46 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    LOL I give Europe another 50 years tops before borders and governments look completely different from those of today's time...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsGreat View Post
    LOL I give Europe another 50 years tops before borders and governments look completely different from those of today's time...
    I concur. Although I'd guesstimate a 30 year mark.

  6. #6

    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsGreat View Post
    LOL I give Europe another 50 years tops before borders and governments look completely different from those of today's time...
    True. Most likely much more unified. Borders slowly melt away as pressure from outside forces europeans to think big, think together.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Yay illegal immigrants.
    meh we dont let anyone in.. but we do.

    Lol. u get what i mean

  8. #8
    Giorgos's Avatar Deus Ex Machina
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Old enmities are slowly fading aways to be replaced with a another one towards all those that try to force a unity between countries that are not ready or in many cases do not even desire unity.


  9. #9
    King Edward III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos View Post
    Old enmities are slowly fading aways to be replaced with a another one towards all those that try to force a unity between countries that are not ready or in many cases do not even desire unity.
    This man speaks the truth.
    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339

  10. #10
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Does anyone else think that Germany looks better on the map with Danzig and the Sudatenland? The current shape is pretty fugly.




  11. #11
    King Edward III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Does anyone else think that Germany looks better on the map with Danzig and the Sudatenland? The current shape is pretty fugly.
    Personally I prefered the borders of Europe as they were before WW1. Putting aside claims of oppression of course.

    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339

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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Personally I prefered the borders of Europe as they were before WW1. Putting aside claims of oppression of course.
    Ha, well, of course you would, you've got all of Ireland there and an empire to boot!

    The real question is, as was somewhat stated above, is/will this lead towards greater unity in Europe or simply a facade?
    Last edited by CDMan477; March 30, 2008 at 05:18 PM.

  13. #13
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Personally I prefered the borders of Europe as they were before WW1. Putting aside claims of oppression of course.
    But Kosova aint part of Serbia!!
    Or is it?.....

    (sorry D J )




  14. #14

    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Personally I prefered the borders of Europe as they were before WW1. Putting aside claims of oppression of course.

    The set up that led directly to one of the most counter-productive and hideously sanguine episodes of human history?

  15. #15
    .......................
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    @Op that looks like terrorist heaven, just stroll through Europe and the only thing stopping them is a 'Welcome to' sign.



    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Personally I prefered the borders of Europe as they were before WW1. Putting aside claims of oppression of course.

    Your map is hideously wrong there was no Algeria, Tunisia or Turkey.

  16. #16

    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by King Edward III View Post
    Personally I prefered the borders of Europe as they were before WW1. Putting aside claims of oppression of course.


    What a stupid map. The german-french border is wrong, the german-danish border is wrong, the austrian-italian border is also wrong :hmmm:

  17. #17
    Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    I'm glad we still have borders

  18. #18
    King Edward III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Err, thanks for coming to my defense, guys.

    Looks like I almost started WW3.
    Last edited by King Edward III; March 30, 2008 at 05:43 PM.
    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339

  19. #19
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Leave that to us, China, or Russia to do that KEIII.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  20. #20

    Default Re: 'Borderless Europe' defies warring past

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    Leave that to us, China, or Russia to do that KEIII.
    Actually, neither of those 3 would gain much by starting a world war. If it does happen, it'll start from somewhere small but turbulent, probably a place that doesnt rely too heavily on western markets/investment, which right away rules out China and Russia.

    But you probably weren't being serious right?

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