Cvria Ivlia, Consulate of Labienus/Publicola (II)

[We shall fwee...Wode]

True Metellus, we cannot do nothing, but a military mission is as you say difficult to say the least. and Marcvs, I know that Pergammon wants men, but it is our most precious commodity, and I believe your plan could work, but it will have to fight against a thousand waves and countless pirates. Do you believe that we can spare the money and the navy? If so, I will allow this house to vote, but if you have the smallest of doubts, you must raise it now!

[Kritias]

"No Consul, we cannot use the men but we can give the coin to Pergamon. If anything, we must help those who ask of our help; this is the proper thing to do. But no military presence in Asia."

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

For the third time, senator, the Pargamians have money! Why haven't they made this mercenary army themselves then I hear you think. Well, Pergamon's population is vastly depleted by the ongoing war against Armenia. The only generals they have are needed to lead the Pergamians themselves, they simply have no one to lead a mercenary army.

About us not having the men, that is just a blatant lie. Just walk around the streets of any town in Italia and definately in Magna Sicilia and you might meet 2 or 3 generals, whereas 1 is generally enough to rule a city or town.

[Kritias]

"Senator, I cannot see a reason why should we dispatch good Romans to Asia, to face countless perils on sea and land, only to cause a bitter war with the Asian Kingdoms. Also, you seem to forget that our war on Africa is not over, nor have we decided yet if we'll aid Marcus Corvinus in the North! To send a mercenary force towards the East with minimum guarantee of success or, failing that, at least survival is blutantly said, a crime towards the People of Rome, whom we have sworn to protect. Our men are not dispensable, Senator, to throw them to the wolf's teeth with no concern of their fate -- they are Roman citizens like you and myself and as Tribune of Plebes, I demand that proper respect is shown to those who have made Rome what She is now!"

[Winter]

ooc: I would so totally veto this if I was here right now/was still a tribune...

[Kritias]

OOC: I know you would but I do not use my veto to "blackmail" them to back down... not yet...

[Winter]

ooc: Its fun you should try it some time.

Now excuse me, I've distracted myself by watching your petty squabbles enough for one day.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Tribune, you accuse me of disrespecting the lives of true Romans. Standard senate discussions would have me shove arguments in the form of 'tu quoque' (you too) in your face, by naming cases in which you voted for war thereby disregarding Roman lives - I need only name the recent vote for war on Carthage in which I was the only one who voted Nay - but that is a practice I dislike wholeheartedly. Instead I will show you that I do care what happens to these noble Roman generals. And that it is in their interest to go to Pergamon.

Senators, how many of you have done military service? [a good number of senators mutter a confirmation] How many of you have friends or relatives who have done military service? [even more senators give a confirming answer] You have served the Republic, against Pyrrhus, in Sicilia and Melite, some younger ones in Africa perhaps. You have not served the Republic by sitting behind the walls of Rome herself drinking wine and playing cards. Yet as we speak, a whole generation of willing young men is doing just that, they are 'doing their service' by eating from their noses. Is that the respect we show for capable officers? These men want to fight, these men need to fight. Keeping them locked behind these walls that have not seen war for over 100 years is a sign of disrespect.

I do respect these brave men, these skilled men, these Roman men. But have they had a chance to develop their skill and bravery? No! Have they had a chance to even show their skill and bravery? NO! I think you are doing these young noblemen a grave injustice by presenting them a general's title and then keeping them at home. I do not suggest these men die in Pergamon, though of course it is a possibility. I expect these men to do their duty in Pergamon and keep the brave Pergamians safe from the ruthless Armenians. The generals are depressed, tribune, they are tired of sitting around in cities. Do you know what bored men do, tribune? They start drinking, they start gambling, in short, they start corrupting. We have the possibility to help these men, and the Pergamians by one simple action. If you really respect our Roman generals, you would allow them to go to Pergamon to make a name and a career for themselves.

As for the dangers of the high seas: I have pointed out before, that late consul Brutus built a fleet, a fleet which got him killed and which the previous consulate decided to maintain. That fleet is the biggest in the Mediterranean, and quite possibly the biggest in the world. No pirate, or any other enemy for that matter, would dare attack it. No harm can come to our brave lads on Mare Nostrum.

Senators, can we find the courage in our heart to leave a starving beggar in a blizzard? If so, I shall be praying for your soul. If you are like me, and would offer the beggar a meal and some shelter from the storm, then look at this diplomat, he is begging us for some cover, some shelter, some protection. Who are we to deny him that?

[Kritias]

"Senators, lend me your ears!

How many of you have served Rome? A great many, I suppose - since that is the only way a Plebeian can enter this Sacred Chamber. How many of you, here, or your relatives and friends have participated on campaigns in the name of Rome? On the Pyrrhic Wars? The conquest of Corsica and Sardinia? The Sicilian Wars? The African Campaign? I am sure that there's not even a Senator in this Senate House who hasn't serve in our glorious army or who has not a relative or a friend that did or does so.

Today, I will provide evidence that this man here, in fact does not respect the Romans whom he desires to send to Asia.

First of all, even if it wasn't a monstrous sin to have decent Roman citizens fight for money as mercenaries, I enquire this Senate House to answer this: is this proposal, having some of our men, our generals, fighting for strange interests, even interests of a nation which requires our assistance,(is) indeed, in the favour of Rome. Senators, I wish you to think hard on this question as it illustrates my point; sending any Roman to fight for the rights of a foreign sovereign is not in the best interest of the Republic. And for that, I say again that this man does not respect the Roman people enough and I dare ask the logic question; why so fixed on having the Senate ratify military help to Pergamon, friend Marcus?

Also, let us not forget about the troubles the expedition might face, even before one can reach Asia; pirates who will attack our fleet, enemy nations trying to sink us down, Neptune's will: let us not forget that while it is a difficult matter to sink a large fleet when being human, it is extremely easy when being the God of the Seas! What if Neptune decides to 'shake' the ocean depths a little and it catches our fleet travelling? Will noble Falco over here take the responsibility for the men he sent away from the Republic, to die like drown dogs in the open sea or will he just say "it was the will of Neptune, I had nothing to do with it"? Withdrawn.

And let us not forget what may happen while in Asia; who can quarantee us that the Armenians won't convince their allies to help them out now that Rome has entered the war. Who can we safely ignore the possibility to have all of Asia turned against us? For all the above reasons, I vote against the proposal for military assistance.

In the contrary, I propose that we send these men to Africa, to help out the Senior Consul by providing skill and numbers to end, successfully, this campaign; this is a cause that both provides the 'opportunity' for any Roman to prove his worth as is a good decision for the Republic! Let this House remember that the Senate and People of Rome have their own battles to fight before they can sent any military help to Pergamon.

Thank you for your time, Senators!"

[Caesar Rex]

ooc: If you want something from the senior consul making mention of it in the senate doesnt help if he is in Africa. You could always email me. Oh wait that doesnt exist. So I guess you will have to send a dispatch to Africa.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

And how would our noble tribune have these men reach Africa? By walking, perhaps? Or maybe he would have them fly over there? The tribune is suggesting a curious thing. He says it is not safe to transport only two generals and their personal bodyguard sailing on a large fleet to Asia Minor where they can serve Roman interests, yet he feels it is safe to sail those same two men and their bodyguard (and possibly a whole legion) on that same fleet to Africa, where they can't possibly do any good as the campaign is nearly over. Wherein lies the difference, tribune?

You may have heard me say they can serve Roman interests in Pergamon, and I stand by this. Helping the Pergamians can give us financial benefits, trade benefits and moral benefits. Rome will be seen, not as the aggressor of Sicilia, Sardinia, Corsica, Melite and Iberia, but as the protector of Pergamon. Who here would like it if they were called the troublemaker of the neighbourhood? Yet that is excactly the reputation we have! Now we have a chance to show Roman kindness to the rest of the world instead of Roman aggression, and the tribune would throw this chance away. The wealth of Pergamon's king is also widely known, by repaying us to raise these mercenaries and organise their armies, they could very well make this worth our effort and determination.

The Asian Nations may indeed pose trouble, but we are not there to fight a war of expansion, we shall only protect Pergamian interests. Only if the Seleucid Empire marches into Pergamon shall we fight them. We fight these enemies if they attack Pergamon or (less likely) Rome itself, not if they merely declare war on us. When the Armenians are pushed back, we can try to establish peace in the region by making peace with those we are at war with, while keeping a modest military presence there to keep the peace.

Also, the tribune would accuse me of trying to break the law by sending Romans to hire themselves out as mercenaries, which is obviously untrue. The generals we send are under direct command of a Roman official (for which I suggested Junior Consul Publicola, who declined), they merely hire mercenaries to form a makeshift auxiliary legion.

[Winter]

ooc: How come no one wants to help maxinus in Massilia?

[Philos Sophos]

"What has happened?Did the senators forget our beloved friend and senator Marcus Valerius.He has to be rescued before we change our interest to something else.The Pergamians can hold on them selves.I am embarrased that the senators of Rome have abandoned their own companion for gold that you want to get from the Pergamian king.

ROMA VICTOR!"

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

ooc: i want to wait how Scipio's story unfolds.

[Kritias]

Africa is far more close to Rome than the other end of the world that is Asia is it not? Thus we have less chances of getting our people drowned. However, I see that we cannot agree upon this matter, so I would suggest to the Junior Consul to open a vote on this motion.

Now, as for the petition of Corvinus; I believe that we must send help to Massalia. Before someone paints me as a hypocrite, I explain myself: I support sending troops up there because Massalia is in the way of Rome's logical expansion. If we are to expand the Republic, we must do it towards Gallia Cisalpina and secure our northern borders. Also, we won't be facing a huge nation but a coalition of Gallic rabble from the nearby tribes, men who thought they could control the larger region. Finally, let us not forget that Corvinus is still inside the city and we cannot leave a Proconsul of Rome to the hands of the barbarians. So, I officially propose:

That we send a legion to liberate the city of Massalia.

EDIT: Wodewick,
you must assign the Censor and Princeps Senatus for this term!

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Seeing the tribune glancing at him as Metellus defends himself against hipocrisy, Falco feels the need to speak again. He calmly rises as the tribune is done.

"Tribune, I did not intend to call you a hypocrite in this matter, because the situations in Pergamon and Massilia are so very different, that one could easily agree on one matter, yet disagree on the other.

I would first like to ask a logistical question: where do we get this legion from? We have four legions in Africa, of which one is severely depleted and two shall stay behind to secure the African province. If you propose the raising of a new legion I am sure quite a few senators will oppose such a motion. The province of Sardinia/Corsica may have a legion, but I doubt it has the best and newest equipment, and I am quite sure Magna Sicilia is not supporting a legion.

Furthermore, I think we should be careful to interfere with Gaul. They have not shown an interest in Roman terrain for quite some time, but as the saying goes 'it is unwise to poke the sleeping bear'. I will not say anything further on this matter, as I do not wish to oppose everything the senators propose.

OOC: if we vote on the Pergamian matter, won't you or some other tribune jus veto it?

[Kritias]

OOC: I don't veto things down because I do not agree with them. That is Winter's scare tactics! I'll simply vote against, though I cannot answer for the Junior Consul.

IC: "As you say, Senator; As for the matter of legions, I believe that since we will be retraining the two legions from Africa, a procedure that requires we return these men to Italy, I propose that we send one of the retrained legions to Gallia Cisalpina."

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

A proposal as good as any, we shall see what the rest of the senate has to say.

[Philos Sophos]

"I agree with the idea,battle hardened men are much better against Gauls than newly recruited."

[Caesar Rex]

Official Dispatch II, Consulate of Labienus and Publicola.
Senators of Rome.
I have returned from Africa and safe in Arretium.
You may ask why Arretium and my answer will be the gods.
It would seem that as hard as we tried to stick close to the coast on our return the winds pushed us further out till we were able to dock close to Arretium.
I will return to Rome shortly but first as I have not heard from you since the beginning of my term I will give you what I have.

The battle of Thapsus was a victory by my Quaestor Decimus.





The battle of was not as well planned but against all odds and favour we won the day.





After both my Quaestors returned to Rome I felt finishing this war was in the best interest of all parties.
I sallied the men and headed off to the siege of Thapsus.
It was no real battle as we outnumbered them 10 - 1.



We moved at day break.
A city smaller than Carthage but magnificent that at certain times of the day you would not be able to see it as it blends in with all that sand.
Siege equipment and everything else we rallied forward.



The archers did most of the work and the nine men I lost were to those slingers that seem to run around every corner waiting for you to poke your head around.