Lazy archers

[Mjr Phil]

Just started playing Rome campaign, so first thing was to conquer Apennine Peninsula. Epeiros and Free People had to go. Was quite easy really, mostly due to fact that that archers (actually peltasts as well) don't shoot! FP's elite archers despite of having long range they only encounter me in melee. When I approach with my army they step forward, but somehow they just run away not shooting single arrow. Playing 1.5 downloaded recently (like 2w ago), VH/VH.

Known bug? Feature? Solved, perhaps?

[Coldcall]

Just started playing Rome campaign, so first thing was to conquer Apennine Peninsula. Epeiros and Free People had to go. Was quite easy really, mostly due to fact that that archers (actually peltasts as well) don't shoot! FP's elite archers despite of having long range they only encounter me in melee. When I approach with my army they step forward, but somehow they just run away not shooting single arrow. Playing 1.5 downloaded recently (like 2w ago), VH/VH.

Known bug? Feature? Solved, perhaps?

Yes ive noticed the ai factions do not properly use their archers in many cases. Im not sure there is a fix for that. My personal house rule is that I only use archers to take out their ranged troops.

[Mjr Phil]

My personal house rule is that I only use archers to take out their ranged troops.

I don't have any archers, just velites. But together with hastati/prinipies they wipe out 30% of barbarians even before we clash. After that it's just a matter of time until they all rout and kill no more than 500 (and that is if they have higher ground!) of my men loosing 3000. I dunno, it seemed more challenging to play Greek Cities than it is playing Rome... Here I'm quite unstoppable

[Coldcall]

I don't have any archers, just velites. But together with hastati/prinipies they wipe out 30% of barbarians even before we clash. After that it's just a matter of time until they all rout and kill no more than 500 (and that is if they have higher ground!) of my men loosing 3000. I dunno, it seemed more challenging to play Greek Cities than it is playing Rome... Here I'm quite unstoppable

I agree, even Velites are quite overpowered. I think they do too much damage with their javelin waves. And when your units become seasoned vets they are even more dealy with their missile wepaons whether arrows, pila or javelin.

[EternalSlayer]

Play H/VH, not VH/VH.

[Coldcall]

Play H/VH, not VH/VH.

I always play h/vh but it doesnt seem to make much of a difference in the enemies incompetent usage of archers or other missile troops. I think the only factions that properly use missile troops are the horse archers who are a big pain. Now if all the factions missile troops were as annoying as them it would make the game far more challenging..even on h/vh.

[Caius Antonius]

Well I don't you of you guys, but in my roman campaign I've really had a headache with the Gallic peltasts and slingers...they spread out in loose formation and it's hard to get rid of them without taking any casualties.

[Mjr Phil]

I think the only factions that properly use missile troops are the horse archers who are a big pain.

That's right, missile cavalry is THE most annoying thing in this game. AI uses them with great skill. It actually makes me send some troops forward to be cannon (javelin?) fodder until MC run out of ammo. They seem to make lot less damage in frontal attack on defending unit than they would do if I ignored them and let them attack my full stacks from behind. And after that it is MCs who become hopeless waiting for survivors to retaliate

[pcaravel]

I agree, even Velites are quite overpowered. I think they do too much damage with their javelin waves.

Velites are too overpowered. In my republican roman armies they inflict much more casualties to the enemy than my hastati which was surely not the case in reality.

[Gotthard]

I'm not sure what you're talking about... I've found velites quite weak compared to my hastatii, especially against armored troops. The computer alway shoots at me with his ranged troops, unless I'm chasing him down, where he runs away (which seems like a good idea...) the Carthaginians, in particular, as well as the iberians and dacians, are nightmares to fight due to their ranged weaponry. It might be the case that the fighting ability of elite archer types can cause more damage in HtH than they can with arrows (entirely likely, given how underpowered archers are ATM) so perhaps for these elite troops it's the smart thing to do. But versus peltasts/slingers/archers, the computer always shoots me, and always irritates me.

[Mjr Phil]

I'm not sure what you're talking about... I've found velites quite weak compared to my hastatii, especially against armored troops

Well, Hastati can fire twice, Velities much more, and even one volley is effective if enemy is moving towards you.

The computer alway shoots at me with his ranged troops

That's what doesn't happen for me. NONE of AI's ranged perform as it would be expected of them, except MCs.

It might be the case that the fighting ability of elite archer types can cause more damage in HtH than they can with arrows (entirely likely, given how underpowered archers are ATM) so perhaps for these elite troops it's the smart thing to do. But versus peltasts/slingers/archers, the computer always shoots me, and always irritates me.

Elite, maybe. But they also have regular archers and peltasts. And all of them just stand there doing nothing or very little. I would expect to come under fire as soon as I come in range, but what they do is moving into position and waiting until I come and slaughter them.

Wait, I remember once when I was in melee, they must have fired a volley, cause couple of my units showed notification about being under fire.

[rory o'kane]

the best thing to do with Velites is to send 'em round the back of enemy infantry, when they're already engaged. against most units, this works a treat - even phalangites are vulnerable to a few volleys of javelins from behind!

[Incontinenta Buttox]

I have just captured a city that lets me train Roman??? cataphract archers!!! They're very expensive though.

The city just to the west of Byzantium.

I going to have some fun with these guys.

[Mjr Phil]

I have just captured a city that lets me train Roman??? cataphract archers!!! They're very expensive though.

The city just to the west of Byzantium.

I going to have some fun with these guys.

Cool! Could you let me know when you find a city that allows Romans to train elephants? That will be surprise for Germans

[Nellup]

Velites are very weak in a normal fight - they can only get off one volley before having to retreat and they are terrible in melee (although the same could be said of all skirmishers).
But as rory said, take them around the back of an engaged unit, even heavy infantry or phalangites and let them let loose and they are devastating, but just make sure the enemy cavalry have been cleared out of the way first.

[pcaravel]

I use the following tactic. I deploy my Velites in loose formation in front of my line of Hastati. When the enemy cames forward they throw one or maybe two volleys of pila at them. Then, they automatically retreat behind the Hastati, who by now should have also started throwing their pila. Once the melee between the Hastati and the enemy starts, I move Velites close enough so as to throw their remaining pila ABOVE the heads of my Hastati to the enemy. When they have no more pila, I move them away to safety. After that, the Principes move closer, they throw their pila to the enemy and join the fight. If the enemy cavalry has been cleared, I prefer to move the Principes behind the enemy, ordering them to autofire. When they have thrown all their pila they charge to the backs of the enemy. When the battle ends and I see the statistics, my Velites almost always have scored much more kills that the Hastati and with far less casualties.

[century x]

I always have problems defeating enemy archers in any faction. For me they are always major killers for me.

[Gotthard]

I know velites can throw more, but pilum are vastly superior to javelins in a throwing match. Just going kill for kill, my hastatii are AMAZING compared to my velites, who are virtually useless unless the enemy is stupid enough to stand there for an extended period, I can flank the enemy, or I can time my volley to hit him right before he throws his (so they lose their shield bonus). I'm really confused the enemy isn't fighting you with their ranged units, my screams of rage fighting the Germans in their woods (with woodsman and elite archers) reverberate quite frequently through the apartment...

You're on h/VH? no editing formations, a perfect RS install? I seriously haven't had this issue... I have a dedicated core of cavalry who hunts down all the ranged units before their army hits my infantry so I *don't* have to deal with them. It's just too irritating (and potentially deadly) otherwise.

[EternalSlayer]

I find that casualties on my own side tend to be too high if I throw them into my own troops....

As for annoying missile troops, you ever gotten round to playing the Iberians? Scutarii can be a really annoying unit, because they won't run from cavalry either.

[snuggans]

1) pila have a higher missile attack than javelins.

2) any missile attack will have a higher effect on the backs of a unit because the shield and defense stat are not taken into consideration.