If Mohammad didn't believe in sacrifice...

[Poisoner]

Then why are there fanatical Muslims killing themselves and their children for Allah and 72 virgins? I thought that was the problem between Mohammad and Jesus, the self sacrifice for cause.

[Georgy Zhukov]

In Islam if you're fighting an enemy of the religion an commit suicide in martyrdom its OK because its considered your trying to protect your religion. but those radical cases in most places, are infrequent.

[Каие]

In Islam if you're fighting an enemy of the religion an commit suicide in martyrdom its OK because its considered your trying to protect your religion. but those radical cases in most places, are infrequent.

Nope, suicide is a sin punishable by hell eternally in all cases even battle as the prophet himself said and demonstrated.
Secondly there is no 72 virgins, that is bull.
Thirdly the aim of defending the religion or your home is not to sacrifice your life but to win the fight and vanquish your foe.

[jankren]

Nope, suicide is a sin punishable by hell eternally in all cases even battle as the prophet himself said and demonstrated.
Secondly there is no 72 virgins, that is bull.
Thirdly the aim of defending the religion or your home is not to sacrifice your life but to win the fight and vanquish your foe.

Suicide is forbidden only if its out of despair and transgression. But if you can save many people by dying then its technically not really a 'suicide'.

O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, except through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you.
And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.
(Al Quran 4:29-30)

[Serious Spamurai]

In the Qur'an those who die in battle, fighting in the path of Allah are said to receive great rewards in paradise. They do not get get 72 virgins however. I might add, most modern suicide bombings do NOT fall within this.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Why are everyone so obsess with virgins ? :hmmm:

[kev-o]

Cause they are tight. Literally and figuratively.

[Kubelwagen]

I guess its the wording. As desirable as "72 sexually experienced women who are gorgeous and free of all diseases" are, 72 virgins just sounds better.

[AngryTitusPullo]

The "72 virgins" idea is probably the most overblown idea that people seem to remember about Islam. It's turning into a real stereotype. Forget the doctrines of monotheism and tolerance, it seems all people want to hear about is the virgins. There's a lot more to Paradise than just sex and physical pleasure, you know.

To start off, you need to understand what the rewards in Jannah (Paradise) are. The Quran says that those who do get into Paradise will be rewarded with blessings that eclipse anything on earth; unlimited food of your choice, riches, and wishes come true. Things considered sinful on Earth such as wine will be allowed, and people will be able to eat and drink all they want and not get full or hungover or sick. People will be reunited with their friends and relatives, we will all be made young again, and there will be no anger or pain. Everyone will be given palaces to live in, and clothing fit for royalty, with luxurious couches and thrones for everyone.

There will be rivers of the purest water, milk, wine, and honey, all of which are better than any you will find on earth. Those who get to the highest part of Paradise, Jannah al-Firdaus, will also be able to see Allah with their own eyes. So, in a sense, Heaven is a paradise filled with pleasures. You need to imagine the context of when this idea of Paradise was revealed to the people; of the extremely stark and difficult life of ancient Bedouin Arabia.

Something as simple as the constant flow of water in a stream was considered miraculous, so it would be natural to imagine heaven depicted this way, flowing with streams of water under the shade of huge trees. (Well what did you expect Paradise to be? Clouds, wings, and harps?)

Also, the believers who make it into Paradise, male and female, are promised beautiful companions, known as "Houris" in Arabic. The Quran describes them in some detail as such:

"Serving [the believers] will be immortal youths with jeweled and crystal cups filled with the purest wine which will neither give them headache nor hangover, with fruits and meats of their desire. They will be fair ones with lovely intense eyes like guarded pearls; A reward for the good deeds of their past life." (56:17-24)

"We have created mates for them and made them virgins, matched in age, for the companions of the right hand." (56:35-38)

"They will be chaste, restraining their eyes in modesty, never touched by man or Jinn."(55:56)

"Serving them will be immortal servants. When you see them, they will look like scattered pearls." (76:19)

There is no direct evidence in the Qur'an to support there being 70 or 72 for each person. The numerical value of 70 is derived from a Quranic commentary by Quranic scholar Ibn Kathir. The number 72 comes from a hadith that says "'The smallest reward [each] for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from [Damascus] to [Yemen].'"

Do Muslims believe it literally? Are they required to? This particular Hadith has technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered 100% authenticly faultless, though it is listed in an authoritative collection. As a result, Muslims are not required to believe in it, though many inevitably do (but an even more respectable Hadith with virtually the same message can be found in a separate hadith collection). Most muslims believe that they will experience incredible physical pleasures when they enter heaven, and that you will be happier in heaven than you could possibly be in this life. Some say that the houris are a metaphor for the ineffable joys of the afterlife. "Ineffable" is the perfect word to describe it, since Allah promises rewards beyond imagination, meaning you can't even guess what reward lies ahead since there is no equal on Earth. Ergo, if you can imagine the greatest, richest, best thing in this life, then what will actually be there will be even better.

So, to answer the question "Do terrorists get 72 virgins in Paradise?" The Question is wrong. Anyone who gets into Heaven will get the servants, it's not specific to martyrs or the shaheeds. The more important question is, who is privileged to enter heaven according to Islam? That's a topic for another node.(Hint: Islam is unambiguous on the issue of suicide and hurting innocent people; they're Completely sinful) In case it's not clear to anyone, Terrorists who hurt innocent people are sinning, so it's up to Allah if they'll go to Paradise or not. You see, bad deeds aren't rewarded, only punished.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node...0in%20Paradise

[Heinz Guderian]

Ok. this is an interesting question to me. How does someone like AQ or Hamas convince a guy to put on a bomb vest and blow himself up? especially in a mosque or a crowd where the majority of people will be muslims (e.g. pakistan or baghdad)? what Islamic arguments would he use?

[PointOfViewGun]

Ok. this is an interesting question to me. How does someone like AQ or Hamas convince a guy to put on a bomb vest and blow himself up? especially in a mosque or a crowd where the majority of people will be muslims (e.g. pakistan or baghdad)? what Islamic arguments would he use?

They just call the suicide hotline. (courtesy of Jeff Dunham)

[jankren]

Ok. this is an interesting question to me. How does someone like AQ or Hamas convince a guy to put on a bomb vest and blow himself up? especially in a mosque or a crowd where the majority of people will be muslims (e.g. pakistan or baghdad)? what Islamic arguments would he use?

"Those Muslims inside that mosque are followers of a heretical sect whose teachings are opposed to those taught by our Great Prophet Master Muhammad may all our lives be sacrificed for him.

Those heretics are helping the infidel crusaders occupying the land of Islam. Spilling their unworthy blood will get you to the highest stage of heaven in which noone can get old and you can find rivers flowing with honey and wine not to mention you will be able to enjoy the pleasure provided by 72 beautiful virgins who are specially selected for those who die in the path of Allah.

Now, oh Warriors of Islam! Give up your life in the cause of Allah for this worldly life is nothing compared to the one awaiting you in the afterlife. God Willing"

"Jihad Fi Sabilillah! Allahu Akbar!"

PS: Anyone know where I can apply for a job as a suicide bomber recruiter? I think I kinda have the talent.

[Heinz Guderian]

"Those Muslims inside that mosque are followers of a heretical sect whose teachings are opposed to those taught by our Great Prophet Master Muhammad may all our lives be sacrificed for him.

Those heretics are helping the infidel crusaders occupying the land of Islam. Spilling their unworthy blood will get you to the highest stage of heaven in which noone can get old and you can find rivers flowing with honey and wine not to mention you will be able to enjoy the pleasure provided by 72 beautiful virgins who are specially selected for those who die in the path of Allah.

Now, oh Warriors of Islam! Give up your life in the cause of Allah for this worldly life is nothing compared to the one awaiting you in the afterlife. God Willing"

"Jihad Fi Sabilillah! Allahu Akbar!"

PS: Anyone know where I can apply for a job as a suicide bomber recruiter? I think I kinda have the talent.

interesting..but wouldn't a recruiter use the Sirat-ul-Rasul or Sunna or actions of the sahaba to show the precedent of a "suicide bombing"? are there any examples they could quote? I just cannot get my head around how a muslim would walk into a mosque in Dera Ismail Khan and kill people while they are praying Juma.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Ok. this is an interesting question to me. How does someone like AQ or Hamas convince a guy to put on a bomb vest and blow himself up? especially in a mosque or a crowd where the majority of people will be muslims (e.g. pakistan or baghdad)? what Islamic arguments would he use?

Imagine since you were born until you reached puberty you were told that 1 + 1 = 3 and this facts is the only known answer to you. Then when you enter the world at large you seems to learn that 1 + 1 is actually equals 2. You by yourself may not know which one is right and which one is wrong (unless you insist on learning and understand it further) chances that you will still believe that 1 + 1 = 3 will stick forever in your mind.

[PointOfViewGun]

Suicide even in the name of Islam is not sacred, it's sin. Getting killed by your enemy is the sacred one. Any kind of suicide attack is the worst sin. Those people that do it are brain washed and people that have nothing to lose.

[kev-o]

"Inshallah! You will recieve 72 virgins for eternity if you sacrifice yourself for Allah. Endless sex and 72 virgins. Remember, use your virgins wisely for you only get 72."

[Serious Spamurai]

Possibly the only style of "suicide attacks" that are acceptable in Islam are like what this guy did, although I'm not sure that the Iran-Iraq war was really the best example of Jihad bis-Sayf, so I dunno if it counts, perhaps.

[PointOfViewGun]

Possibly the only style of "suicide attacks" that are acceptable in Islam are like what this guy did, although I'm not sure that the Iran-Iraq war was really the best example of Jihad bis-Sayf, so I dunno if it counts, perhaps.

It's no way acceptable at any measures. It might look honorable but there is no honor in death. Your life is granted to you by Allah and by taking it you commit the greatest sin.

[Serious Spamurai]

It's no way acceptable at any measures. It might look honorable but there is no honor in death. Your life is granted to you by Allah and by taking it you commit the greatest sin.

There is a very large difference between throwing away the life given to you by Allah because of grief, sadness etc. and respectfully repaying His generosity and returning that life for His sake. Find me direct evidence in the Qur'an, or perhaps a reliable Hadith that say that this kid is going to Jahannam and maybe you'll convince me.

[boofhead]

Possibly the only style of "suicide attacks" that are acceptable in Islam are like what this guy did, although I'm not sure that the Iran-Iraq war was really the best example of Jihad bis-Sayf, so I dunno if it counts, perhaps.

Wow, Serious, what a great kid is all I can say. If only...if only...if only these suicide-bomb mother-ers weren't blowing the crap out of shoppers and innocents then perhaps the modern world could learn to respect the enemy like the old world did at times. Concepts of dignity seem to have abandoned us. Screw the modern media!

It's no way acceptable at any measures. It might look honorable but there is no honor in death. Your life is granted to you by Allah and by taking it you commit the greatest sin.

You are suggesting there is no point at which dying is worth it. You are wrong.