Musketeers?

[Fijj]

Now are Gunners even worth anything during attack or even defence (land battle). You always have to keep them in the front lines, and the enemy always charges to the Gunners, they fire and kill like 10 men, then get choped up by infantry.

The cost is huge, time period and building req. makes them hard to make. Are they even good, and if they are, tell me a good stratagy to use them for. I love Muskets, and they were more devestaing than this

[candle_86]

i use them for defense myself, put them on walls and watch the fireworks, especally if the AI tries a battering ram. For front line battles, i do use them also, but backed up by some knights and a few cannons to bloody the enemies nose a bit.

[Kennylz]

Put them on skirmish. Your welcome.

[Krusadr]

depends what kind of musketeers you can employ. If they have a very long range, or even just a long range, they are very practical.

Hand gunners? nah.

[Ring-A-Ding]

I find that Crossbowmen and Archers are much more effective on walls, than musketeers. In a musketeer unit standing on a wall, only 1-2 of them are able to fire due to the slits the the wall, where as archers and crossbowmen are able to fire huge volleys and even indirect fire if need be. Indirect fire... Although not very effective, is at least better than not shooting at all.

That said, I'm a big fan of Musketeers when fighting pitched battles. If you are able to pin the enemy down, a unit of musketeers can cause many casualties when left alone on a hill overlooking the battleline.

[Archus]

Musketeers are designed to lower morale not wipe out units. Remember they have extremely volatile muskets with little bits of lead that some out, not machine guns with AP rounds. They aren't very accurate from long range and should not be used as frontline troops. Like said above they are best used on "pinned-down" troops and if used correctly will rout most units. They can be good against knights if used correctly, again.

[Bacon!]

im not that much of a fan of gunpowder inf, i only really tend to use them if i lack any sort of archer that use flamming arrows as i usually find that lowers the morale and can do enough dmge to cause the lower class enemys units to flee. The English retinue archers do the job as they have enough attack and def aswell as ranged attack to hold the line if the enemy dont flee anyway. Plus as mentioned when putting gunpowder inf on walls only half of them can fire anyway, although they are usful to hold of streets in citys ive found.

[Old Geezer]

In three campaign games as Scotland (LTC and retrofit) I have not missed having musketeers, et al., one bit. I'd rather have the slot taken up by a Border Horse or Hospitaler - in fact anything but rabble. I found them to be a waste of effort in the 2 Kingdoms America campaigns I played as Spain.

[Ambiorix_thijs]

Cossack Musks and Janis musks are v good units though. Put them on walls and they will shoot anything. I use them alot in battle.

[Problem Sleuth]

If you get the Stainless Steel mod, they become much cheaper - and therefore, much more effective. If the enemy has pure infantry and is caught up in a melee, it may be best to maneuver them to the sides and fire along that way. I know, that's not something terribly original for advice and it should be done for ALL ranged units if that happens, but Musketeers are even better for it. The enemy will rout pretty damn quickly.

[Nergal1610]

I don't generally use muskets. They are slow, costly and take a long time to acquire. I rather bury the enemy under the mass of my men.

[candle_86]

well i do love them, i got online with a buddy and did an old style battle, used muskets and cannons only. Was a slaughter fest but fun

[Fijj]

Well, I use them on walls occasually, only if I'm really outnumbered by large amounts of very heavy infantry.

I just think if the Rate of Fire increases and cost decreases it'll be better.

I know muskets were used mostly for morale at that time, but still the Russian cossak muskets are usless because the axe men are more powerful. Also Crossbows are used for armor-piersing.

idk, hopefully in Empire it'll be better muskets.

[antaeus]

musketeers are good used in combination with heavy infantry or pikemen, as they were in reality.

set up pikemen immediately behind them, as enemy approaches switch your musketeers to skirmish so they withdraw through the pikemen... the enemy will still be targeted on them and try to charge through the pikemen.. pointy point point end for them. you'll then need to keep an eye on the musketeers, so they dont run away too far... and you'll need to tell them not to fire through your own men until its safe for them to advance out in front of your pikemen again.

hand gunners lack the range needed to be truly effective as a missile unit, however with their heavier armour and fear inspiring weapons they are great on city walls... especially against enemies with ladders. they will terrify them as they climb, and cut them up with their swords in a melee. be careful though, on the largest settlement size their guns only just reach the ground in range... better to keep them out of the way and use late era heavy archers or crossbowmen.

[candle_86]

havnt tried the hand gunners myself, just english and french musketeers, but i made a full stack of them and they decimated an enemy very fast, i was using a hill of course so all of them could fire, and i wiped the enemy out, none of there units even got close enough to swing a sword before i had them routing

[Archus]

Of course in Empire: Total War is when they'll really come into their own, they will be pretty much standard in all armies.

[jman47]

the only time i use them is in situations like candle said, where both sides are using only muskets and cannons, like in battles i set up myself rather than in the campaigns

[candle_86]

Of course in Empire: Total War is when they'll really come into their own, they will be pretty much standard in all armies.

well the time frame the game occurs in im hoping to see some elite units. The American Militia for instance while crappy frontline troops when in trees to hide them proved to be excelnt marksmen. Also rifling came into use towards the end of the 18th Century so im hoping to see a few rifled units also, as they could out range a musket, just they where hand made and expensive guns, but if its done right well worth it. The other thing id love to see in it would be Naval bombardment on coastal cities and the lack of walls in the later period as walls came to be of no use except for forts, cities no longer had them.

Oh and one thing has to be on them, bayonettes.

[mangoo-]

I agree, I set them on a custom battle and sit back.

[Leon Justice]

For some reason, as I'm playing the Stainless Steel mod. All my units fight to the death now. Gunpowder units ability to rout or take out enemies hasn't really improved either. I'm not exactly sure how they are to be used in the mod.