Why isn't Judaism a religon?

[Illyrians]

The jews had a important role in Medieval life. They had the majority in Jerusalem and they had a diaspora. They were in HRE, Venice, Spain, Balkans.... They made up alot of the doctors in HRE and banks and such. These people were wealthy and constantly exterminated, expulsions. Why isn't Judaism a religion in the game?

[Ataegina]

because any of the factions represented in vanilla mtw2 had judaism as official religion,thats why.

[Samir]

The jews had a important role in Medieval life. They had the majority in Jerusalem and they had a diaspora. They were in HRE, Venice, Spain, Balkans.... They made up alot of the doctors in HRE and banks and such. These people were wealthy and constantly exterminated, expulsions. Why isn't Judaism a religion in the game?

the age of Judaism being a faction for a total war game was ended by Titus the roman emperor in the year 70 and that end was a bloody one. The Diaspora is the exile of the jews from the levante ever after. So they did not "have" Jerusalem and actually their percentage of the population went towards 0 after the year 74 with the fall of Massada.

They had a cultural influence on europe more than the levante, but no military or political one (ok political one they had but only through the backdoors, though when too powerful they usually were expelled or killed).

the game mechanics of total war restrict religious percentage and conversion to the presence of priests and religious buildings, so you would have to have a rabbi running around coming from a faction which they were not.

I dont know if you could make a script that sets a certain ammount of population pagan, jewish, or anything else.

and I think a certain political correctness factor too, besides historical reasons. Too many idiots around. Imagine the 15 year old AdolfHedgehock getting a chance to exterminate 20000 jews for a better public order...

[eggthief]

He is talking about religion not warfare and btw DLV has judaism as a religion, u are required to have at least 5% of the people in a settlement at the jewside in order to be able to recruit merchants (they're trying to prove stereotypes or something?).

[masterbaker]

And DLV is a mod, they're not gonna be criticised and attacked by the mainstream media, probably not even TW fans, if they aren't politically correct enough. CA on the other hand could get some stick if they include things like "need 5% Jews to recruit merchant".

On a more un-PC note you could just pretend the heretics are Jews and give them a good burning.

[Miraj]

Basic fact is they didn't include any religion that doesn't have a faction to follow it. Paganism is there for the Aztecs and Lithuania(Kingdoms).

[Angrychris]

ya this should apply more so for rome T.W. then M.E. 2.

[Grunn]

original medieval included Judaism as a religion, and as other have pointed out, it just isnt really worth including in a total war game unless you have a faction actively spreading a faith.

in original medieval most provinces in the levante had between 5-20% judaism and there were a couple of provinces with 70-80% to represent the jewish kingdoms near the caspian sea and 0-5% throughout the rest of europe. and the religion only existed for the first 50 turns or so of a campaign after that it was hard to find a province with any jews due to conversion by priests/imams.

so it added nothing to the gameplay, and given how in medieval 2 in a large city even a tiny religious minority can cause high religious unrest i can see why they dropped it.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

original medieval included Judaism as a religion, and as other have pointed out, it just isnt really worth including in a total war game unless you have a faction actively spreading a faith.

in original medieval most provinces in the levante had between 5-20% judaism and there were a couple of provinces with 70-80% to represent the jewish kingdoms near the caspian sea and 0-5% throughout the rest of europe. and the religion only existed for the first 50 turns or so of a campaign after that it was hard to find a province with any jews due to conversion by priests/imams.

so it added nothing to the gameplay, and given how in medieval 2 in a large city even a tiny religious minority can cause high religious unrest i can see why they dropped it.

You are raising a very interesting issue, as this would enrich and deepen the game, which is too much about the fight of the two big religions. It would'nt be a bad idea to add a Jewish faction (f.e. "Jewish diaspora"), but it would be a problem for this faction to have own settlements, army etc.
Maybe you could train some better merchants or better priests in a Jewish-influenced city.

Yes, religious unrest is somewhere totally lame, f.e. in some Muslim or Christian cities the 3 religions could exist in harmony without a clash. Also it would be a minor problem what to do with the historical fact that the first crusade included attacks on the Jewish community.

Until then try DLV 5.4.

[Grunn]

You are raising a very interesting issue, as this would enrich and deepen the game, which is too much about the fight of the two big religions. It would'nt be a bad idea to add a Jewish faction (f.e. "Jewish diaspora"), but it would be a problem for this faction to have own settlements, army etc.
Maybe you could train some better merchants or better priests in a Jewish-influenced city.

Yes, religious unrest is somewhere totally lame, f.e. in some Muslim or Christian cities the 3 religions could exist in harmony without a clash. Also it would be a minor problem what to do with the historical fact that the first crusade included attacks on the Jewish community.

Until then try DLV 5.4.

i'd rather they added the khazars rather than trying to turn judaism into some sort production or trade bonus (which isnt all that realistic anyway, the jews were not the only group interested in trade and banking systems)

so i'm quite happy to leave jews in medieval 2 where they are, silently running along in the background, providing loans, being forced to wear identifying badges and finally being expelled from the kingdom when a rising tide of anti-semitism coincides with a king borrowing too much money from jewish banks *cough*

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

The jews had a important role in Medieval life. They had the majority in Jerusalem and they had a diaspora. They were in HRE, Venice, Spain, Balkans.... They made up alot of the doctors in HRE and banks and such. These people were wealthy and constantly exterminated, expulsions. Why isn't Judaism a religion in the game?

Try the DLV 5.4 mod, you can build synagogues with some factions which adds -30% public happiness to your settlements, but also increases tradeable goods!

[Old Geezer]

It would certainly add flavor to the game to have Jews and the option to expell them to reduce unrest but lose trade income. And where are the Hussites? How can we have a game of the middle ages without and Hussites and the heretical Cathars. Don't tell me that Empires won't have Huguenots!

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

It would certainly add flavor to the game to have Jews and the option to expell them to reduce unrest but lose trade income. And where are the Hussites? How can we have a game of the middle ages without and Hussites and the heretical Cathars. Don't tell me that Empires won't have Huguenots!

The problem with your idea (although not totally bad), that Hussites, Cathars and Huguenots weren't a nation, faction or whatever, they were just a religious group. They lacked the ethno-cultural core which keeps a bunch of people together and marks them on the map as a 'country' or 'nation'. Besides, these groups didn't have as much history as the Jewish people or the English or whatever.

[Incredible Bulk]

In that case why not add Hinduism? Taoism? Buddhism? Shintoism? I
Mean for argument sake, your talking about adding Judaism why not add the others? Most of those religions had soldiers ready and willing to die. For centuries the Muslims and Hindus have had many battles between each other

[eXistenZ]

Necropost, yeah !

[Incredible Bulk]

No it has been resurrected

[complete noob:(]

No it has been resurrected

Still an over 4-year necropost. I doubt anyone who was involved is even on the forums. And in response to what you said, none of the religions you mentioned have any major following in the area of the world this game deals with. Judaism does. Not that it belongs in the game.

[Incredible Bulk]

Still an over 4-year necropost. I doubt anyone who was involved is even on the forums. And in response to what you said, none of the religions you mentioned have any major following in the area of the world this game deals with. Judaism does. Not that it belongs in the game.

Well i wanted to speak on the topic but this too me was better than starting a new thread. Ok so by time if M2TW the Jewish nation and its military is pretty much gone, but history shows that Jews where scattered everywhere and had synagogues in each of those locations. Could this have a factor on religion and keeping people happy? Yes. It could it make some in the population angry yes? However did the Jews provided skills and resources to the community? Yes. I do feel they should be represented, heck even allowed to create rabbis

Question, how can you change a factions religion? Im playing a mod that has a samurai based faction and ther religion is serpent god I want to change it to Shinto how can i do this?

[Gandalfus]

Judaism should really be represented in the form of buildings.

[Herpus Derpus]

I'm assuming the Jewish faith was included under "Heresy" seeing as it was widely considered so by Catholics of the time.