BC: AOR Auxillia Project

[Ahiga]

Broken Crescent will be featuring an Auxilia System in 1.1, laying the foundation for a much more complex and specialized setup if we do 2.0. The system is meant to reflect local warriors and nobility fighting for foreign invaders, being accessed by invading powers only outside of their native regions.

Most Auxilia Zones will feature pretty much the same units to all invaders for now. However certain regions with large amounts of both Christian and Muslim Populations will be Dualistic, in that different Auxilia are accessed if the invader is Christian/Hindu or Muslim/Kypchak. Once we've sketched the overall system down, we may go back and specialize it so factions get a bit more from a foreign region they had ties to (Like Abbasids to Khorasan).

What we're looking for is unit ideas and suggestions for the system. They need to be local soldiers willing to fight for foreign invaders not of their religion or culture, unless the region is a dualistic one. Suggestions involving a simple rename of an existing unit are more likely than those involving unit changes or a brand new unit. However we'll consider all suggestions, although we will not be obligated to add any. All ideas are appreciated.

Broken Crescent Auxilia Map:
http://www.brokencrescent.com/Images/AOR_Pieces_Map.jpg

Western (Christian/Steppe) Zones

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rus Zone

• Tier 1: Voi/Smerdy Woodsmen - 2h axe wielding Anatolian Levies.
• Tier 2: Svoi Pogyane "Our own Pagans" - Kypchak Light Foot Archers
• Tier 3: "Polk Spearmen" - Kypchak Slavs Spearmen.
• Tier 4: Druzhina Lancer or HA (Kyp Nobles - More available for Kyps, less for others)

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Crimea Zone

• Tier 1: Voi/Smerdy Woodsmen - 2h axe wielding Anatolian Levies.
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Steppe Zone

• Tier 1: Voi/Smerdy Woodsmen - 2h axe wielding Anatolian Levies.
• Tier 2: Kypchak Nomad Foot Archers
• Tier 3: Kypchak Light Horse Archers
• Tier 4: Kypchak Nomad Lancers

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Western Anatolia Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Eastern Anatolia Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Cilicia Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Syria Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Mediterranean Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Armenia Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Georgia Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Jazira Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Egypt Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Palestine Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Iraq Christian Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Southern (Arab) Zones

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jazira Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Eastern Anatolia Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Syria Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Armenia Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Palestine Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Egypt Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Africa Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Arabia Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Oman Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Iraq Muslim Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Central (Iranian) Zones

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Azeri Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Iran Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Daylam Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Khorasan Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Transoxania Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Sistan-Baluch Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Afghanistan Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Eastern (Indian) Zones

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Punjab Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Sindh Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Ganges Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

Deccan Zone

• Tier 1:
• Tier 2:
• Tier 3:
• Tier 4:

• Tier 4: Native Entourage (Tier 2-3 infantrymen, archer, or cavalrymen)
• Tier 5: Native Nobleman (Tier 3-4 cavalry)

[Aethelred]

Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but does that mean you will have new skins for new units or will you just reuse existing units?

[Miraj]

Almost 99% re-use of existing units. We may kindly ask our buddy Strel to make 1 or 2 new base models for some unique auxillia (something similar in spirit to the gallic auxillia that RTR had) - but I think the existing bases that BC has is more than enough to fullfill the needs of this system.

[Ahiga]

Right. For instance, an auxilia example would be the Polk Spearmen under the Rus region - that'd simply be the Slav Spearmen with a name change (a different EDU entry), or no change at all. Someone could come up with the idea for Arab Swordsmen as an Iraqi Auxilia, which would just be the Tribal Arabs of the Abbasids. Or using the Armenians serving the Mongols as an example for which Armenian units would be Auxilia to foreign invaders. Aspets, Nakharar, or the Border spear/Sword probably wouldn't, but Diebul Horse Archers or the lighter mailed spearmen might.

Historical examples of units which served other invaders include Khwarezm's Diqhan Lancers serving the Seljuks, Kypchak Horse Archers serving the Golden Horde/Mongols, Daylami serving the Ghaznavids, Georgian/Armenian Nobility serving the Mongols, (later on) rajputs serving the Ghorid's successor the Sultanate of Delhi, Ghazni's Medium Horse archers serving the Abbasids, Greeks serving the Ottomans (in b4 a storm of human excrement). Think back to the Hellenistic Kingdom's use of foreigners, or the Achaemenid's use of foreign subjects, what EB and RTR did and what PDER is doing, and you'd have what Seljuks or Abbasids did, and what we are aiming to do.

[Beauchamp]

Sounds like a great idea, especially for a nation like Oman, which had the possibility to draw much of its troop base from foreigners: (Zanj, Funj, Somali, Baluch, Persian, Indian etc.)

Also for nations that could recruit elite units from the "periphery", which, for most of the Islamic dynasties, was an essentiality. It would be cool, that once the Ghorids conquer India, that they too, can hire the opium taking, wife burning, full-time warrior Rajput infantry (I have been reading a TON about the Mughals lately: I finished the Baburnameh, and a big book on the six great Mughal rulers).

Anyway, I will post some ideas later about African units, but right now I am on vacation.

Ma'Salema

[Socal_infidel]

Woot! I love me the AOR system! Can't play without it! If you need any help with the nitty-gritty of coding it in, I'd be willing to help.

[Darvist]

Well recruiting the local mercenaries in addition to the mercenaries already available would help with some of the places. I would think in Varna you might be able to train Varangian Warriors for example. But that might be a bit overpowered as there damn nice units. Not as good as Pelekyphoroi Axemen but good enough. And it wouldn't make much sense for them higher up near Kiev if its the hole AoR. And Kypchaks with Varangian Warriors would be a nightmare.

[Miraj]

Woot! I love me the AOR system! Can't play without it! If you need any help with the nitty-gritty of coding it in, I'd be willing to help.

How does it exactly work for PDER? Can you link me? I got kingdoms recently so I may just play it and check it out myself this weekend.

[Darvist]

I got kingdoms recently so I may just play it and check it out myself this weekend.

Be ready to OWN the AI its rather stupid and easy without any modifications. Why i had to stop playing it and go back to GrandViz's AI before BC came out.

[A_B]

Woot! I love me the AOR system! Can't play without it! If you need any help with the nitty-gritty of coding it in, I'd be willing to help.

The AOR system is top notch in PDER - especially for a mod mostly done by one guy. Definately check it out - differential recruit times, from 1 to 6 turns depending on whether it is a 'merc' type unit (1 turn), to a proffesional type unit (4 to 6 turns). The only thing i donn't know about the system is how the AI handle it.

And as for units, the Anatolian Cavalry and Anatolian Infantry (spearmen) from PDER are very good quality and would fit in BC perfectly.

[Kip]

It seems like basic ethnic units could feasably serve under almost any faction...for instance basic run-of-the-mill Armenians, Georgians etc. might fight for a conquering army...I think the higher-tiered units will probably need more work to see which nations' nobles historically (or atleast plausibly) would fight for foreigners.

I'll put some thought into this over night and hopfully I can come up with some helpful ideas by tomorrow.

[Shadowcry]

Won't this blow your unit scale or system completely out of the water? Like we have only 500 to work with right?

But anyway...

Transoxania Zone

* Tier 1: Khorasani Conscripts-Weak dudes with spear, Khorasani Spearmen
* Tier 2: Turcoman Horse archer- The Tier one Turcomans u get as Khwarezmians
* Tier 3: I dunno Persian spearmen- Persian spearmen IMO dont need to be changed haha
* Tier 4: *Special* Turco-Mongol Horse Archer- The Mainstay of Central Asian Armies appears after the Mongol Event, Horse archer Unit with Mixture of Khalaj,non hat-ed Kypchak and Mongol Horse Archers

[Ahiga]

Won't this blow your unit scale or system completely out of the water? Like we have only 500 to work with right?

But anyway...

Transoxania Zone

* Tier 1: Khorasani Conscripts-Weak dudes with spear, Khorasani Spearmen
* Tier 2: Turcoman Horse archer- The Tier one Turcomans u get as Khwarezmians
* Tier 3: I dunno Persian spearmen- Persian spearmen IMO dont need to be changed haha
* Tier 4: *Special* Turco-Mongol Horse Archer- The Mainstay of Central Asian Armies appears after the Mongol Event, Horse archer Unit with Mixture of Khalaj,non hat-ed Kypchak and Mongol Horse Archers

We have about 100 spots left, but this is sort of a 'placeholder' until 2.0. The system may be changed altogether in between that time. We'll be investigating ways to guarantee that balance is not hurt by this, as after all in EB even if Parthia can get infantry they can't go and beat the Romans in an infantry battle.

But thanks for your suggestions - That's what we are looking for, ideas to help us out with what units to fill in the various spots.

[Son of Mao]

We have about 100 spots left, but this is sort of a 'placeholder' until 2.0. The system may be changed altogether in between that time. We'll be investigating ways to guarantee that balance is not hurt by this, as after all in EB even if Parthia can get infantry they can't go and beat the Romans in an infantry battle.

But thanks for your suggestions - That's what we are looking for, ideas to help us out with what units to fill in the various spots.

That is exactly what I love about EB

[Kara Kolyo]

I don't know if all muslim factions should get this, but at least the turkish sultanate can get in western Anatolia and the Balkans some cavalry unit - "christian timariots" or some name like this. They could use the stratiotai model. Ahiga mentioned the greeks fighting for the ottomans, but alot of balkan christian vasals did it too. The battle of Ankara 1402 or Rovine 1395 are examples of this. Or Kyose Mikhal from the early 14 century.

[born2dive67]

I posted this in the wrong place

[kepper]

Is there any more news about the AOR Auxillia Project of BC?

[Tadzreuli]

very good idea, I like it !!!

[TWoxy]

Nice idea with the AOR, helps with the realism a lot.

[Miraj]

The Auxillia buildings will be 5 levels. I was wondering if any of you have any good names we could give the different levels. Culture specific ones are also possible.

Any ideas would be welcome.