Correct use of billmen

[a0jc]

I'm having troubles with the English Billmen. I'm new to the forum and the game, but I love military history (which I find most real world tactics actually work in this game).

Anyway, the description says they are good for anti cavalry (I suppose they replace Pikemen) and melee except for it doesn't work for me. I had them in wall formation and ready to take a charge from vanilla French Mailed Knight (the earliest heavy cav you can get) and they got wooped. They even had light chain mail armour and one chevron experience. It even happened when I was attacked by a brigand of Hobilars and my Billmen still got wooped (these are one on one stack scenarios all at full strength). What am I doing wrong?

When I use them for anti infantry they still drop like flies. When on attack against spearmen militia, They get owned and only take less than half of the spearmen. When I get attacked by spearmen militia, the same thing happens. My billmen get beaten back.

So what is the trick to these guys, i feel like dropping them and going for cheaper levy spearmen. This is early midgame so don't drop things on me like armoured swordsmen or demi lancers.

[Summitz]

Ok, the good thing about billmen is their HIGH ATTACK, but the bad thing about them is their LOW DEFENSE. If always, and I mean always, use them only in a supporting role. For example tie the enemy with you other units and then unleash the billmen and then you will see their true awesome power. They will rip everything apart in their path, doesnt matter it is the chivilric knights or dismounted norman knights or anything.........

[Pontifex Maximus]

The Correct use of billmen?

Cannon fodder.

[a0jc]

I was watching them attack today and noticed that they don't. Is it a bug or something? They sat there and took it from peasants.

I tried the tie-up thing, I engaged with my Dismounted Feudal Knights (2 stacks of Spear Militia) and then charged Billmen. The 4 stacks of billmen dwindled to around 10 guys each (and routed) and the DFK and Longbowmen finished the Spearmen AND the General's Body Guard (charged my DFK's but failed by their own mass of crossbow militia in which the computer decided to use as a melee unit). The Billmen were defeated by the Spearmen. That's when I noticed they don't attack. I don't see any attack animation, they just take it.

Maybe Pontifex is right, they're cannon fodder. I place peasants in a more valuable position than them.

[Problem Sleuth]

Correct use: don't

[blink180heights]

Billmen are used mainly for countering a cavalry attack.. not to take them head on... the Bill hook has a point and a hook.. the point is for taking down the horse.. the hook is for pulling the mounted knight off his horse... these guys cannot fight infantry at all.. even worse heavy infantry... they are best used in your second line of defense as counter attack troops.. also since they are low on defense one blow from any infantry will kill them.. use them as a counter attack from a cavalry charge... not even juicing them up with armour or XP will work unless they fight cavalry... my suggestion is .. i know they are cheap but militia spear men would do better with an xp.. if not then just don't pick billmen unless you are skilled in military tactics.. like me lol also janissary billmen or whatever the turks use.. they are great for infantry and cavalry but cost a bunch

[Problem Sleuth]

Billmen are used mainly for countering a cavalry attack.. not to take them head on... the Bill hook has a point and a hook.. the point is for taking down the horse.. the hook is for pulling the mounted knight off his horse... these guys cannot fight infantry at all.. even worse heavy infantry... they are best used in your second line of defense as counter attack troops.. also since they are low on defense one blow from any infantry will kill them.. use them as a counter attack from a cavalry charge... not even juicing them up with armour or XP will work unless they fight cavalry... my suggestion is .. i know they are cheap but militia spear men would do better with an xp.. if not then just don't pick billmen unless you are skilled in military tactics.. like me lol also janissary billmen or whatever the turks use.. they are great for infantry and cavalry but cost a bunch

First, you don't sound mysterious and cool by putting lots of periods. Second, it really sucks how they can't take cavalry charges because, historically speaking, the Bill was great for that. It was a huge advantage; it could be used as an axe, a spear, and the hook could exploit armor, pull soldiers off horses, or drag someone back to the killing ground.

[Ruprecht]

First, you don't sound mysterious and cool by putting lots of periods. Second, it really sucks how they can't take cavalry charges because, historically speaking, the Bill was great for that. It was a huge advantage; it could be used as an axe, a spear, and the hook could exploit armor, pull soldiers off horses, or drag someone back to the killing ground.

Coulden't have said it better myself, or as good for that matter.

+ rep , when i can give it again.

[Archus]

Correct use: Guarding your King's toilet ;D

Anyone who said not to use them was right. Its cheaper to buy levy spearmen and use mailed knights/DFK to smash the flanks.

[theflautist82]

billmen are low in defence so they shouldnt be charged in the front line. they must be charged later after your milita units gets tired of fighting. they are excellent while fighting against heavy infantry. If you send them first you will lose many men and a lot of money

[Grunn]

sounds like you need to patch the game, i believe 1.2 fixed animation bugs for 2 handed weapons. (even so 2 handed units are still attacking slower than they should vs other foot-units)

I find regular billmen pretty useless allround, no armour+no shield means they die in droves, and unlike other halberd units billmen dont have spearwall and so they cannot stop a cav charge, their good points is they are cheap, they hit hard, and they will mince cav if they charge an engaged unit.

I find the best way to use them is to take 2 or so units in a stack, stick them behind your spearmen/dismounted knights near the flanks of your formation, and after the battlelines meet you start working them round the flanks of the armies where they can cause maximum damage while taking a minimum in return. even with these tactics i find them not really worth bothering with until you can give them light mail armour (2nd upgrade) otherwise they just die too fast.

hwoever all your billman problems are forgotten when you get the heavy billmen
I find them much easier to use, they are quite capable of taking a place in the regular battleline, and i find they can even take cav charges from some of the lighter cav types.

and remember that at the end of the day, billmen are cheap

[Kennylz]

The reason they are getting devastated is that they are not meant to actually receive any punishment, only deal it. The bill is a weapon that is not meant for a lot of parrying and blocking. Hook, stab. Purely offensive weapon. Use them for purely offense, so don't put them in the front line to take any charges.

AND make sure you are using the 1.2 patch. 2 handers are worthless unless you have that.

[Kennylz]

Billmen are great verses cavalry, they just aren't great verses cav charges. That bill might double as a spear, but it /isn't/ a spear.

[Archus]

On M2TW defence will always defeat attack. Not sure who it was exactly but some one in these forums said:

Unit 1
Attack: 9
Defence: 13

Unit 2
Attack: 13
Defence: 9

Unit 1 will win because it has the defence to work off and its attacks are more likely to do damage.

[Internazionale]

On M2TW defence will always defeat attack. Not sure who it was exactly but some one in these forums said:

Unit 1
Attack: 9
Defence: 13

Unit 2
Attack: 13
Defence: 9

Unit 1 will win because it has the defence to work off and its attacks are more likely to do damage.

You seem to be forgetting the charge bonus that all units get when they...uhm... charge?

[Old_Scratch]

Yeah, two handed units are devastating on the charge and if charged properly will beat equally priced one handed swordsmen. That still doesn't help billmen though who seem to act best as arrow absorbers.

[Longcat]

Yeah, two handed units are devastating on the charge and if charged properly will beat equally priced one handed swordsmen.

No they won't and they don't not one on one anyways.

[Cmdr_Sdxo]

Heavy Billmen are ok, but they aren't great either(they are slow to attack) and by that time you get much better troops... If you're forced to use billmen(not likely),they can hold their own against troops trying to take walls with ladders. I was sorely disappointed by the billmen because in MTW1 they were a real can opener against heavily armoured infantry(when flanking, that is) and absolutely destroyed heavy cav.

I use M2TW billmen(well, heavy billmen as all my cities are upgraded to the max) mainly as a ceremonial guard in towns... They look pretty cool even though they're not of much use.

[Problem Sleuth]

Billmen are great verses cavalry, they just aren't great verses cav charges. That bill might double as a spear, but it /isn't/ a spear.

Spears aren't magically effective against cavalry post-charge... It's TAKING the charge that makes them good, as the enemy will impale themselves attempting to do so. The enemy can charge all they want, but if you have your billhooks out and ready, their mounts are gone and they'll be wide open for killing.

[Kennylz]

Yep, I was just saying that bills in this game aren't used as spears, and I suppose realistically they are really effective against cavalry that is already engaged, because the bill is great at dragging a rider off of his horse.