Geert Wilders' Islam Film, should the Dutch government intervene?

[NaptownKnight]

I am sure many of you have heard about the upcoming film from Dutch politician Geert Wilders, which supposedly calls the Quor'an fascist. As many of us also know, cartoons in a Danish newspaper sparked huge controversy in the Islamic world, violent protests were held, and many called for the cartoonist's life to be taken. I am almost certain the same thing will happen with this film, but I fear that since the offender is a politician, the country will be blamed not the person.

The Dutch government should intervene and ban the release of the film, at the very least strongly denounce it and sympathize with the protesters. Many of us see a terrorist and believe that most Muslims are fanatical suicide bombers. This is obviously not true, but we can see the damage one person can do to his people's image, especially when the opposing side utilizes the media right. Muslims should be assured that Geert and his racist propaganda does not represent the Dutch people in anyway, that he is just one person and poorly supported at that. I wonder, as I don't know Dutch law, is there some system of impeachment? I think the man should loose his seat in the government, because what he is doing is obviously putting his country in great danger, and really contrary to their interests. An impeachment would also be a strong message to the Muslim world that the Dutch government does not support this kind of racism. In the U.S., a person with this kind of ideology would have no hope of getting elected, or maintaining his seat in the government. Racism can simply not be tolerated in our governments.

Should the Dutch government intervene, or should this instance of free speech be protected?

[finneys13]

free speech be protected

[Scar Face]

Freedom of speech. What do you expect? For us to live in fear of what we say for irrational Muslims? Let them express outrage. Let the Radicals make their threats, and do whatever they want. That much easier to remove the perversive radicals from society.

[Heinz Guderian]

Let them show it.

On the subject, Channel 4 in Britain is being petitioned to show a holocaust denial movie made by some unsavoury characters, should they show it? (I think the holocaust deniers are using the current freedom of speech debate to get there narrow minded views across).

[Каие]

Let them show it.
On the subject, Channel 4 in Britain is being petitioned to show a holocaust denial movie made by some unsavoury characters, should they show it? (I think the holocaust deniers are using the current freedom of speech debate to get there narrow minded views across).

Technically all freedom of speech etc or none of it. Thats what the issue is here to people who refuse to monitor the media.

I'm kind of torn on the issue. I think Wilders should be allowed to show his film, but I also think he should know better than to want to do so.
What does the law say in the Netherlands on defamation? Would Wilders be open to a class-action lawsuit, for instance? If so, that would be the best way for the Muslim community to address this nonsense, IMO.
Looks like the US hosting service for the website that was to show the movie shut it down anyways: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7310439.stm
And I know for sure that in the US the hoster would be open to a class-action, which I suspect was the motivation.

We have to wait to see whats int eh film first.

@kb8 I agree, but I think that the man should be impeached for his hate mongering. I really hope that the majority of Muslims will show him up, and show more class, by holding peaceful and sensible protests, and going through the judicial system like Crimson Scythe suggests.

So far so good, only peaceful protests, but the Middle Easterners haven't heard of it yet.

Of course I agree. The movie is wrong. It will create damage, and it is factually incorrect and blatantly biased. Nonetheless, freedom of speech is absolute. You cant cheery pick it.

I keep saying it, but tell that to Germany, France, and Austria.

If the Muslims do not wish to value democracy, it's their problem.
Europe should not tremble under the threat of fundemantalists.

Democracy doesn't mean the right to hate. If that was the case look above.

Well, if you have any support for this claim, I'm willing to listen

I'd rather not have my life ruined. Lets face it no one who ever criticised Judaism and Jewish people ever did good in life and is treated as an everywhere. Please find me one, just one anti-Jew who is praised universally or respected (in modern times)

Most Dutch aren't muslim. Most Dutch don't give two hoots about Islam. Most Dutch do care about individual freedom. So the Dutch government, if it is truly representative of the people, should stay out of it.

Actually the Dutch government fear a Boycott and sanctions, that thing called Oil.

The original Cartoons were published on the front page of a newspaper in Egypt, a country with a large population of Muhammadan/Hadithist Muslims, no one cared, it's only when the Danish Imams had fake ones made, ones that were actually offensive, that people started to care.Really someone should just get a hardcore gay porn movie and edit Hitler's a Geert Wilders' face on the two guys and try and get it released, just to take the piss.

Erm Danish Imams faked the cartoons?

[boofhead]

Democracy doesn't mean the right to hate.

Ah but it does. As long as it is in legal manner.

Actually the Dutch government fear a Boycott and sanctions, that thing called Oil.

I don't see why. Most of the world supports this undertaking. The Dutch would still get their oil.

[Serious Spamurai]

Erm Danish Imams faked the cartoons?

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_i...sten_cartoons/
Scroll down to "Fake cartoons". There were only 12 original cartoons, the booklet distributed by the Danish Imams had more than 12 pictures in it.

It's a bigger issue than just a Bomb Muhammad, whilst it's still not that bad, combined with some Srebrenica and various other things it's used as "proof" that the west is after the Ummah.

[Tankbuster]

Well, I think the film will be completely worthless. It will be just another round of worthless islam bashing, calling them "goat ers" (as in the Theo Van Gogh movies).
I'm all for freedom of speech, but calling a muslim a "goat er" doesn't help the debate, it adds nothing constructive. If you feel you need to insult to make your point clear, well then by all means do, but I'm not into insulting for fun.


But I protect freedom of speech, so no, no intervention.

[Crimson Scythe]

I'm kind of torn on the issue. I think Wilders should be allowed to show his film, but I also think he should know better than to want to do so.

What does the law say in the Netherlands on defamation? Would Wilders be open to a class-action lawsuit, for instance? If so, that would be the best way for the Muslim community to address this nonsense, IMO.

Looks like the US hosting service for the website that was to show the movie shut it down anyways: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7310439.stm

And I know for sure that in the US the hoster would be open to a class-action, which I suspect was the motivation.

[Torment]

I think people should simply stop ing about a film that nobody has even seen yet. The end.

Oh my God, what idiot decided to replace the normal censor with smillyfaces? I demand that mothering son of a whoring ing ing ing little is hanged right now!

[NaptownKnight]

Freedom of speech. What do you expect? For us to live in fear of what we say for irrational Muslims? Let them express outrage. Let the Radicals make their threats, and do whatever they want. That much easier to remove the perversive radicals from society.

Usually politicians should have their country's best interests at heart. This film is obviously just hate mongering, and it could end up killing some of his fellow countrymen. Terrorism is not like fighting another country, it is much harder to prevent and the attack can come from with in. Something so blatantly and obviously racist, coming from a Dutch government official, could enrage many Muslims, especially Dutch Muslims.


@kb8 I agree, but I think that the man should be impeached for his hate mongering. I really hope that the majority of Muslims will show him up, and show more class, by holding peaceful and sensible protests, and going through the judicial system like Crimson Scythe suggests.

[Scar Face]

Usually politicians should have their country's best interests at heart. This film is obviously just hate mongering, and it could end up killing some of his fellow countrymen. Terrorism is not like fighting another country, it is much harder to prevent and the attack can come from with in. Something so blatantly and obviously racist, coming from a Dutch government official, could enrage many Muslims, especially Dutch Muslims.

Of course I agree. The movie is wrong. It will create damage, and it is factually incorrect and blatantly biased. Nonetheless, freedom of speech is absolute. You cant cheery pick it.

Besides, as I said, there are radical Muslims. It does not take much to enrage them. I'm not too worried really. Whether this movie was made or not the reaction would still occur, it is inevitable. There is no reason to cower purely because death is involved. If irrational and violent men wish to suppress freedom of speech, if they wish to do us harm for criticizing Islam or its leaders [justly or not], then let them. They will pay the price.

Oh my God, what idiot decided to replace the normal censor with smillyfaces? I demand that mothering son of a whoring ing ing ing little is hanged right now!

Simetrical. It is ridiculous, I agree. Incredibly childish and ineffective, really. Putting these smilies will not stop swearing. The naivety of that thought is astounding. I am considering leaving this site actually. Why the **** would I stay around when ridiculous things like this are put into play?

[Erik]

Something so blatantly and obviously racist, coming from a Dutch government official, could enrage many Muslims, especially Dutch Muslims.

He's not a government official, he's a member of parliament and parliament isn't part of the government.

Unfortunately, I don't think many Muslims in the 3rd world know the difference either.

Nonetheless, freedom of speech is absolute. You cant cheery pick it.

That's not true.
Every country with a government has limits on freedom of speech, including the Netherlands.

Also, making movies has nothing to do with the freedom of speech.
The freedom to make any kind of movie/cartoon/statue/painting/etc. is called artistic freedom but member of parliament are excluded from this freedom in my country.

Geert Wilders has a legal right to express his opinion, for example by arguing in parliament, but that's about it.
But then again, just because somebody doesn't have a right to do something doesn't mean you can ban him from doing it either.

----

My opinion: we probably can't prevent Wilders from releasing his movie, but when he does I think my government should at least stop paying for his security.
No point wasting tax money on protecting somebody who willingly provokes violence against him.
Eventually evolution will root these people out, and we can live in peace.

[Daneboy]

The freedom to make any kind of movie/cartoon/statue/painting/etc. is called artistic freedom but member of parliament are excluded from this freedom in my country.

Members of parliament having restricted freedom of expression??? I don´t think that will hold in the European Human Rights court.

I am actually quite certain. Even I could win it.

[Каие]

There are ten times worse films, but what i think is funny is the Muslims are making him famous and giving him the attention he wants.

Its not like he doesn;t know what will happen he wants it to happen, i bet he prays for an Islamic terrorist attack just so the Netherlands becomes like the US and Uk and turns on Muslims completely. Its putting your hand into a fire on purpose, getting burned then getting sympathy and free health care to fix you.

[Dr. Croccer]

Aren't there already two threads?

Let the bastard have his movie. Wiki says he's going to quote verses from the Koran and try to mold it into reasons for modern ''islamofascism'' so it's bound to be epic fail.

I think the world is overreacting though. Media blows something out of proportion. Again.

[Dr. Croccer]

Btw, in a BBC interview with Wilders a while back the interviewer suggested that Wilders was a racist. Wilders immediatly throws a hissy fit and says '''What? How dare you say that?'' or something along those lines.

Man that was ing awesome. Most Dutch interviewers, even Jensen, don't have the balls to call him a racist, which he is.

He didn't appreciate the protest of Nederland Bekent Kleur either. He called it a ''protest of hate''.

For a guy that hides behind the wide shield of FoS, he doesn't seem to like it when people use it against him.

[NaptownKnight]

Most people like him usually don't, Dr. Croccer. Racists tend to be very hypocritical, the very nature of racism is hypocrisy.

[Dr. Croccer]

Amen to that.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Let that **** show it the Muslims shoul protest but not attack show that the Quaran isn't violent. Violence will only play into that ass face Lex Luthor. (He looks like Lex Luthor with a ing toupee)