jewish ethnicity

[Chaigidel]

Jewish people are an ethnicity
discuss.

you arent a jewish person unless you have a jewish mother it has been this way for thousands of years --- how can anyone say they are not an ethnic group as well as a religious one?

[Syron]

You can convert to Judaism, and some have in the past.

That being said, relatively speaking this conversion has been a rather small percentage of total Jews. Of course though you have Chinese/Indian/African etc etc Jews. Some argue these are the result of migration of Jews, other that they are native converts.

So while "Jewishness" isn't stricly an ethnicity it is dominantly composed of one. Especially given that some consider jewishness to be a family trait, the whole "matrilineage" concept.

[The Good]

Yes, like Syron said, there have been converts in the past, in fact, most of the Khazars in the Russian/Ukrainian steppes had converted to Judaism.

Ancient Jews probably looked a lot like the modern Arabs do, no offense to any Jews here for that comparison, but over time, many Jews who migrated away from Israel/Judea usually intermarried with the natives of those lands they settled. German Jews look a little more like Germans, Russian Jews look somewhat Russian, British Jews have a rather British look, etcetera. But most, if not all of these people, are bound together by one belief (that is, all religious Jews), and the same common ancestors: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I'm not Jewish, I don't have that honor, but I respect them in that they are God's chosen people. Out of all the peoples in the world, God chose the Jews to be His special people. Of course, be assured that any Christian is as good as a Jew. It says so in the book of Romans, or Galatians.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The Jewish tradition that ethnicity is passed through the mother is nothing more than tradition, with all the scientific base of the Magic School Bus.

[Chaigidel]

prove it;

I can prove you arent called a jew unless your mother is ETHNICALLY jewish -- not a ing convert.

[removeduser_487563287433]

prove it;

I can prove you arent called a jew unless your mother is ETHNICALLY jewish -- not a ing convert.

No you can't. All you'll be able to do is find somebody agreeing with you, and it will be equally as easy to find somebody disagreeing with you.

Now as for ethnicity not being maternally decended - it's quite easy to prove. You see, Chaigidel, when a man and a woman love each other very much or in my case drink two bottles of wine each they might have sex and mix up their genetic code into an entire new person! That new person will have a mixture of genes from both parents.

In genetics, Chaigidel, should an asian or black person have a child with a Jewish girl the Jewish genes don't go to the others and say, "actually guys, let me take it from here."

[Icefrisco]

Converts can be called "Jews" but they wont be ethnic Jews. Converts are religiously Jewish. There are Jews in many parts of the world that practice Jewish customs and look Jewish but follow another religion(Mainly in China and parts of Latin America). Those people are still Jews but they are ethnic Jews, not religiously Jewish. Though Jews arent a single group, many Jews do have a considerable amount of "ethnic" looks. In places such as Ukraine, there are Ashkenazi Jews who look Arabic which is wierd since Arabs never ruled Ukraine. In China there are Jews who have curly hair and big noses but they follow Islam. The only explanation for that is that they are ethnically Jewish.

[Chaigidel]

which speaks to the FACT that there is an ethnic jewish people; as you said similar to arab genetic traits---
Ice I thought there was a special name for a converted gentile-- there is none?

judaism is a religion, but the jewish people are an ethnic group-- that more than likely could be genetically profiled to prove that point.

[Blau&Gruen]

Ferrets has been faster (my bad).

people = political (or cultural) entity
population = biological (and social) entity
language = political, cultural, social phenomen

[Chaigidel]

yes my good man but are you aware of the mitochondrial DNA? which only comes from the mother?

the jewish mother does in fact pass on a traceable and undeniable line directly back to the first jewish woman, just as she carries a line all the way back to the first woman.

should an asian or black person have a jewish wife, then his children would be ethnically jewish-- since as far as I know, the jewish people do not account for the fatherhood even a little when determining what is and is not an ethnic jew,

in fact you cannot be an ethnic jew and have only a jewish father-- you would have to convert to be jewish, if your mother was jewish you are jewish from the start.

just as ice stated, there are ethnic traits to the jewish people, that clearly denote relation to the old tribes.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I am aware of that. It is why we can only trace ancestry through the maternal line. However, this does it no stretch of the imagination mean that ethnicity is transfered maternally through anything but Jewish tradition.

That's fine, of course. But you're going to look stupid if you try to back it up scientifically.

[Chaigidel]

you just stated "we can only trace ancestry through the maternal line"

and the jewish people long before anyone knew of this ; followed ethnicity through the maternal line--- which kinda makes them an ethnic group

I find it amusing that I will look stupid with facts in my hands; but such as life.

the jewish people by your own words are in fact a distinct ethnic group.

[Blau&Gruen]

Jewish means to belong to a people in the sense of the rabbinic tradition. You can probably say, what makes a jew is his relation to the mitzvot (commandments).

being Semitic

"Semitic" = group of languages with common linguistic features
"Arabic" = speaker community of a semitic language

[basics]

Not being a scientist I cannot argue the point between you but as far as the Scriptures are concerned it is from Sarah, the wife of Abraham, that Jews come to be reconed as such, not Abraham.

The separation comes from the type and figure that Sarah and Hagar were in the eyes of God and for which the Scriptures are all about concerning Jews and what Scripture asserts as real Jews. This is seen by Sarah being of the New Covenant, Mount Zion and Hagar of the Old Covenant or Mount Sinai under Law.

It was from Sarah that Isaac sprung according to promise whilst yet in a nature that defied giving birth. In other words as a type for Christ is Isaac seen because by natural events he shouldn't have been born at all. Yet he was and himself fathered Jacob who was renamed Israel revealing the Gospel truth in and of sonship.

On the other hand Hagar is seen as under Law of which no salvational line is apparent. Her offspring and his peoples therefore struggle and strive outside the promises that are the Gospel. Mount Sinai being the place from where the Law was given to Moses, not to save but to emphasise the sin of the people.

[Blau&Gruen]

it is from Sarah, the wife of Abraham, that Jews come to be reconed as such, not Abraham.

No, Jacob

because:

Abraham - Sarah
Isaak - Rebekah
Jacob (who became Israel) - Leah
Leah's forth son was Judah (יְהוּדָה)

[removeduser_487563287433]

you just stated "we can only trace ancestry through the maternal line"

and the jewish people long before anyone knew of this ; followed ethnicity through the maternal line--- which kinda makes them an ethnic group

I find it amusing that I will look stupid with facts in my hands; but such as life.

the jewish people by your own words are in fact a distinct ethnic group.

Just because we can only trace it does not mean genetic traits are not passed down by both mother and father to their offspring. This is really basic biology that I would expect an eight year old to master, Chaigidel.

The Jewish tradition of tracing ethnicity is nothing but a tradition for the sake of pragmatism. For the very simple reason you can never be sure who the father of a child is - you can only be sure of the mother. This is relatively common in ancient societies, such as in Athens where a law was passed whereby citizenship was passed on maternally to children.

Some Jewish people are an ethnic group. Others have mixed over the centuries and others still are converts. But genetic traits are not only passed down by the mother.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Are you people talking about being Semitic or being Jews? Because religion doesn't pass through genes.

[Blau&Gruen]

... double post ...

[Chaigidel]

yes religion does not pass through genes-- my point is that regardless of religion that the jewish people are an ethnic group-- they just happen to keep themselves together through this religion, and many religious traditions

the point being that history reflects the ethnicity of the jewish people, because of the way they have been isolated and persecuted in so many nations for so many years--- jews were forced into the methods they have of keeping culture, because of the open hatred many people have had for them throughout the centuries.

this also reinforced the overall ethinicity of the jewish people ( and in some cases the denial of that ethnicity)

[Chaigidel]

actually ferrets I thought we just agreed that the mitochondrial dna is passed down --- but overall you agree with me-- that there is a jewish ethnicity-- though it is diluted in some cases if not most; there is more than a religion to being jewish.