Adam and Eve is a valuable insight into women...

[Shaun]

Yeah. The Bible. Hardly my favourite source of truth; but nevertheless, I believe that this story holds an important message about women and how they are. It's like whoever made up this story knew the true nature of women or something.

Both Adam and Eve were told they could not have some thing. So Adam says: "OK I can not have it, should not have it, I will not have it." Simple enough? Right? Logical right? Done.

Eve said: "Hmm, why can't I have it? I'm now attracted to it more so because I can't have it. And since attraction is an emotion and I am an emotional being, I get off on this fact. In fact now I need to find out what it's all about."

Temptation comes in, and says: "try this. There's nothing bad with it, you'll feel wonderful."
"Oh really?" Says Eve, and grabs the thing that was told not to have, and illogically took it anyway.

Temptation laughs. "Haha, you slut," it sneers, "you fell for it, see ya later." Eve says: "I messed up, what can I do now? Oh I know, make Adam have it too, so I'm not the only one, tee hee I'm so smart."

So eve sees Adam. "Hey Adammm."
"What do you want?" he says.
"Hey try this."
"No, I'm not suppose to, put that down."
"But come on doesn't the fact you can't have it, make you want it?!"
"No, he says, you women are confusing."

OK, so it's my little take on the story, but can you pick up on the real world, present day realities in this?

Women don't make sense, they're emotional beings and driven by what they feel. Men make sense, they're logical. Women do stupid things, but never take responsiblity for them, always try to blame someone else. Women always want what they can't have, and if they can't have it it is all the more attractive to them. That is why you're suddenly more attractive to other women when you have a girlfriend or wife. That is why if you're gay you have no shortage of women.

But men are willing to do stupid things for women. In fact, most men are willing to do whatever a woman wants - even if they know that this is extremely foolish, illogical, and can end in great disaster, they still do it. They're willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a woman, basically.

[chriscase]

Women don't make sense, they're emotional beings and driven by what they feel. Men make sense, they're logical. Women do stupid things, but never take responsiblity for them, always try to blame someone else. Women always want what they can't have, and if they can't have it it is all the more attractive to them. That is why you're suddenly more attractive to other women when you have a girlfriend or wife. That is why if you're gay you have no shortage of women.

But men are willing to do stupid things for women. In fact, most men are willing to do whatever a woman wants - even if they know that this is extremely foolish, illogical, and can end in great disaster, they still do it. They're willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a woman, basically.

I'd say this is an insight into misogynist stereotypes of women. Like most stereotypes, you can find something to support it if you look hard enough, but its "value" is dubious at best.

[Ultraman]

You're too young man! Don't fall for this misogynistic trap!

Men aren't much different than women in regards to temptation and wanting what's denied them, imo. Women might argue that men aren't much different, their just held back by their lack of communication skills.

Sadly, I feel compelled to end with a sexist joke:

Why did God create Adam first?

Because he didn't want advice.

[Shaun]

I'd say this is an insight into misogynist stereotypes of women. Like most stereotypes, you can find something to support it if you look hard enough, but its "value" is dubious at best.

The thing is, you don't have to look particularly hard to find either jealous women who act on temptation and emotions, or silly men willing to do whatever a women wants.

You're too young man! Don't fall for this misogynistic trap!

Men aren't much different than women in regards to temptation and wanting what's denied them, imo. Women might argue that men aren't much different, their just held back by their lack of communication skills.

Sadly, I feel compelled to end with a sexist joke:

Why did God create Adam first?

Because he didn't want advice.

How is this 'misogynistic'?

[chriscase]

The thing is, you don't have to look particularly hard to find either jealous women who act on temptation and emotions, or silly men willing to do whatever a women wants.

I do. But I suppose that's because I surround myself with sensible people.

[Shaun]

I do. But I suppose that's because I surround myself with sensible people.

Few and far between.

As sexist as it is, it does show you something about women that I also believe is true however, to me, you're comparing a logical man to an illogical woman and that no longer matters now because we also have illogical men and logical women around now and have for a long time.

Illogical women who think primarily on emotion far out number illogical men, though (unless a female is present then yes, men are equally as illogical due to ignorance of how to act to get the woman).

[Ultraman]

How is this 'misogynistic'?

Because it's a conclusion that lumps women into a category below men as rational beings. You may not hate women, but with this viewpoint it's rather hard to see how you might think well of them. Not that I'm seeking to convince you that you should, as I'm sure you'll believe what you choose to believe. If you were older I'd say you've probably had some serious issues with women, but at your current age I'd just say that you've got a lot to learn. Or maybe you'll carry this perspective with you lifelong, in which case I'm glad I'm not any of your future girlfriends/wives. Actually, either way I'm glad, because I'm a man. And not just any man... Ultraman.

[Cleisthenes]

You're too young man! Don't fall for this misogynistic trap!

Men aren't much different than women in regards to temptation and wanting what's denied them, imo. Women might argue that men aren't much different, their just held back by their lack of communication skills.

Misandrist trap: men are worst communicators. Women are great for talking about what color to paint the living room, but when's the last time that you saw a female orator dazzling crowds? Michelle Obama?

Men have, for over thirty years, outscored women on the verbal component of the SAT without one year as an exception.

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar...docId=95859645

[Ultraman]

Misandrist trap: men are worst communicators. Women are great for talking about what color to paint the living room, but when's the last time that you saw a female orator dazzling crowds? Michelle Obama?

Men have, for over thirty years, outscored women on the verbal component of the SAT without one year as an exception.

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar...docId=95859645

The point I was intending to make was that women might argue in their favor just as the op is arguing for men's, using inaccurate generalizations to bolster their stance. I was not meaning to take the position that it is true.

No doubt that men and women communicate differently, which can make for interesting discussion, though I'm not sure I agree with your equating verbal skills with communication skills.

[gambit]

As sexist as it is, it does show you something about women that I also believe is true however, to me, you're comparing a logical man to an illogical woman and that no longer matters now because we also have illogical men and logical women around now and have for a long time.

[chriscase]

I have a little rule I try to live by:

Generalizing about the psychological "nature" of women is always wrong. If you do it, prepare to be trounced, and not in a nice way. Even if you are right, you are wrong.

It works for me.

[Ruin]

I can't believe this, it's quite insulting to be fair.

Men don't make sense, they're unemotional beings and driven by what they think others think they should do. Women make sense, they're logical. Men do stupid things, but never take responsibility for them, always try to blame someone else. Men always want what they can't have, and if they can't have it it is all the more attractive to them. That is why you're suddenly more attractive to other men when you have a boyfriend or husband. That is why if you're gay you have no shortage of men.

See? Works just as well. And I can back all of that up with evidence if you so wish. Such as cheating, something men engage in far more then women, as they are so desperate for the thrill of gaining what they shouldn't have. Of Men's endless supply of egoism, their incapability of acting decently unless their on their own, so obsessed are they in proving themselves to be 'macho' and 'cool' in front of their mates, who would backstab them the moment they think it'll improve their cred.

But women are willing to do stupid things for men. In fact, most women are willing to do whatever a man wants - even if they know that this is extremely foolish, illogical, and can end in great disaster, they still do it. They're willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a man, basically.

Women tend to be far more fixated on pleasing their man then vice versa, and place far more emphasis on the importance and integrity of love, whereas men are quite happy to sleep with every easy girl who comes along.

You see? Not the only one capable of being sexist, at least I have something more concrete then the misogynist bible to back me up.


Weren't you the person who gave up on love? If so hurry up and mature a little. If not then you have a lot of learning to do about women, were you brought up in an all-boys school by any chance?

[gambit]

I can't believe this, it's quite insulting to be fair.

Men don't make sense, they're unemotional beings and driven by what they think others think they should do. Women make sense, they're logical. Men do stupid things, but never take responsibility for them, always try to blame someone else. Men always want what they can't have, and if they can't have it it is all the more attractive to them. That is why you're suddenly more attractive to other men when you have a boyfriend or husband. That is why if you're gay you have no shortage of men.

See? Works just as well. And I can back all of that up with evidence if you so wish. Such as cheating, something men engage in far more then women, as they are so desperate for the thrill of gaining what they shouldn't have. Of Men's endless supply of egoism, their incapability of acting decently unless their on their own, so obsessed are they in proving themselves to be 'macho' and 'cool' in front of their mates, who would backstab them the moment they think it'll improve their cred.

This is focusing on all the cons of men. I personally detest even the thought of backstabbing my mates or even a random stranger. Also the men who have to be 'macho and cool' are usually just college idiots or the men you see on TV shows. I know none of my bud's would backstab me, even for a billion dollars, it's one of the things that makes us true men IMO.

But women are willing to do stupid things for men. In fact, most women are willing to do whatever a man wants - even if they know that this is extremely foolish, illogical, and can end in great disaster, they still do it. They're willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a man, basically.

Women tend to be far more fixated on pleasing their man then vice versa, and place far more emphasis on the importance and integrity of love, whereas men are quite happy to sleep with every easy girl who comes along.

You sound like you're saying men only want to sleep with women and our simple craniums can't think beyond that. I believe men have 2 categories of relationships with women.
1) Women we simply want to sleep with (so yes it's true there are some) and
2) Women we actually want to date and have a relationship with.

Pursuing sexual pleasure isn't some degrading influence, it's built in to the genetic code of both women and men. Some women look down upon sex because it's not as deep as say, marriage. That is something about women you missed, they can at times think with an All or Nothing attitude, which at times is intelligent but those times are few and far apart...especially in relationships. Men aren't empty or shallow, we are just prefer to think on far simpler and practical terms than women.

Both sides are far from perfect. In my simple generalization of life, men don't look far enough and women look too far ahead. Men have simpler priorities while women have complexer ones. You can't point a finger at any sex for 'lesser thinking' as both are far from perfect, in their own ways.

[Ruin]

This is focusing on all the cons of men. I personally detest even the thought of backstabbing my mates or even a random stranger. Also the men who have to be 'macho and cool' are usually just college idiots or the men you see on TV shows. I know none of my bud's would backstab me, even for a billion dollars, it's one of the things that makes us true men IMO.

I was making a satire against the original post, so I of course focussed on the downsides of the masculine sex.

You sound like you're saying men only want to sleep with women and our simple craniums can't think beyond that. I believe men have 2 categories of relationships with women.
1) Women we simply want to sleep with (so yes it's true there are some) and
2) Women we actually want to date and have a relationship with.

Sadly the more masculine men get the more they lean towards the former, rather then the latter. And the society we're in brands this as a good thing, even though if a woman was to do the same she is labeled a slut or whore.

Pursuing sexual pleasure isn't some degrading influence, it's built in to the genetic code of both women and men. Some women look down upon sex because it's not as deep as say, marriage. That is something about women you missed, they can at times think with an All or Nothing attitude, which at times is intelligent but those times are few and far apart...especially in relationships. Men aren't empty or shallow, we are just prefer to think on far simpler and practical terms than women.

And those simple terms tend to be, more often then not, impressing your mates or making them laugh. The more popular you are the further extremes you go to to gain this, no matter what the concequences for others.

Both sides are far from perfect. In my simple generalization of life, men don't look far enough and women look too far ahead. Men have simpler priorities while women have complexer ones. You can't point a finger at any sex for 'lesser thinking' as both are far from perfect, in their own ways.

I find it amusing that you would attack my post but not the original poster in this way, as I was simply satiring and countering his own argument. If he hadn't of said anything I would never have produced the sexist comments i did.

[gambit]

I was making a satire against the original post, so I of course focussed on the downsides of the masculine sex.

Well sure, but don't compare one sexes downside to anothers upside. If you wanted to focus on masculinity, you shouldn't have included the female factor at all unless you planned on including their downsides as well and then in turn, the male's upsides. But that's just the way I think one should argue so, point taken.

Sadly the more masculine men get the more they lean towards the former, rather then the latter. And the society we're in brands this as a good thing, even though if a woman was to do the same she is labeled a slut or whore.

True, damned society

And those simple terms tend to be, more often then not, impressing your mates or making them laugh. The more popular you are the further extremes you go to to gain this, no matter what the concequences for others.

Again these are the young college folks or teenagers. How many 30-40 year olds do you see pulling pranks and doing crazy stunts? That's youthful energy being channeled through man's instinct to try out the dangerous. A side effect is it's usually hilarious, if they fail or succeed in their actions, and they in turn become popular so yes, they pursue popularity. As do young women just in a different way than men. and don't get me wrong, there are still the bastards that simply want to look funny and would betray their friends, but that is not every man in the world...not nearly.

I find it amusing that you would attack my post but not the original poster in this way, as I was simply satiring and countering his own argument. If he hadn't of said anything I would never have produced the sexist comments i did.

and I'm countering your post, it may seem like an attack but I have no negative feelings towards you, I'm just slightly put off at the apparent direction and style of your argument. Excuse me if I'm not in the kindest most careful mood, it's been a bad day.

[gaius valerius]

When men do illogical things it's because they are stupid, in that way, humanity apparently descends from the retard called Adam. What you suggest is as has been said: a stereotype, and if you look long enough, you'll find - and certainly in the bible, the king of stereotypes - what you want to proof it.

Reality is different. With influence it depends on the personality of persons. Women have a powerful tool in sexuality, but that means little on its own. It's not like it's a superweapon no man can resist. And the dichotomy between men - logic / women - emotion is so 19th century.

[Ruin]

Well sure, but don't compare one sexes downside to anothers upside. If you wanted to focus on masculinity, you shouldn't have included the female factor at all unless you planned on including their downsides as well and then in turn, the male's upsides. But that's just the way I think one should argue so, point taken.

This is an entire thread about misogyny and insulting women, what else am I supposed to do? As I said, it was a satire of the original post, just turning his arguments back on themselves.

Again these are the young college folks or teenagers. How many 30-40 year olds do you see pulling pranks and doing crazy stunts? That's youthful energy being channeled through man's instinct to try out the dangerous. A side effect is it's usually hilarious, if they fail or succeed in their actions, and they in turn become popular so yes, they pursue popularity. As do young women just in a different way than men. and don't get me wrong, there are still the bastards that simply want to look funny and would betray their friends, but that is not every man in the world...not nearly.

Not nearly, but I don't think the inhabitants of TWC give a good crossection, being mostly geeks and hence more feminine and intellectual then the average male. In real life men tend to be far more misogynistic and egotistic, just as women tend to be more gossipy and shallow then seen on this forum.
The egoism of men doesn't fade with age, it simply is utilised in other ways. Who can slag off generally hated figures more, or stand on the 'losers' of the male world.

and I'm countering your post, it may seem like an attack but I have no negative feelings towards you, I'm just slightly put off at the apparent direction and style of your argument. Excuse me if I'm not in the kindest most careful mood, it's been a bad day.

It's not quite the same, I was countering Shaun word for word with simple replacement of men with women and vice versa. Its satire, not critical argument.

[Ummagumma]

delete

[Cluny the Scourge]

Women do behave and think in that way. I hold them in contempt at the same time that I desire them. It confuses me.

[Ruin]

Women do behave and think in that way. I hold them in contempt at the same time that I desire them. It confuses me.

Excuse me? At least women have basic consideration for others, this consideration seems to be inversely proportionate to testosterone levels for men, and the opposite for women, the more macho a man, the less he cares about the feelings of others, the more feminine a women, the more she cares about her own looks. The most caring people are found amongst tomboys and feminine guys.

Just because this is a male-dominated forum is no reason for hate speech