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  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Citizenship for soldiers

    TWENTY-NINE PALMS, California (CNN) -- U.S. Marine Lance Cpl. Mario Ramos-Villalta flashes a broad smile from beneath his camouflage cap as he talks about the country he loves and why he became a Marine.

    He's fought twice in Iraq and survived an attack on his Humvee in October 2005. Now, he's preparing for deployment to Afghanistan.

    Yet he's not even an American. He's a citizen of El Salvador serving in the U.S. military.

    "A lot of the papers I get [say], 'You're a great American,'" the 22-year-old Purple Heart recipient says. "I am not an American citizen yet, but I still fight for it."

    He adds, "Sometimes, I do get depressed about still not being a U.S. citizen and going over there."

    Ramos-Villalta isn't alone. He is one of an estimated 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" -- dubbed "green-card warriors" -- serving in the military. See photos of sacrifice and his Purple Heart »

    In fact, the first U.S. service member killed in the Iraq war, on March 21, 2003, was Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, a resident of Guatemala who came to the United States when he was just 14. Ramos-Villalta says it fills him with pride that Gutierrez was an immigrant just like him.

    "It shows that even though he wasn't an American, he stands on our side and he goes over there and he dies for that reason."

    Platoon commander, 2nd Lt. Benjamin Brewster, offers similar praise about Ramos-Villalta, saying he's a dedicated Marine who has put his life on the line for his comrades and for America. He says those sacrifices should not go unnoticed by the U.S. government.

    "He understands the freedoms that he enjoys in this country -- and I would say at a level that lots of Americans don't," Brewster says. Watch Ramos-Villalta describe getting attacked in Iraq »

    The United States has tried to make it easier for foreigners serving in the military to become citizens. In the wake of the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, President Bush signed into law a measure allowing active-duty non-citizens who have served honorably in war on or after September 11, 2001, "to file for immediate citizenship," according to the Defense Department.

    Nearly 37,000 non-citizens of the U.S. Armed Forces have been granted citizenship since the war on terror began in October 2001; 109 have been granted posthumously, according to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which works closely with the Pentagon.

    Another 7,300 still have their requests for citizenship pending, says Chris Rhatigan, a spokeswoman for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. It takes about 7-10 months to process an application, she says.

    "These service members have made extraordinary sacrifices for our nation and we're going to do everything possible to ensure that qualified immigrants who serve in our military and who wish to receive U.S. citizenship receive that at the absolute earliest opportunity," Rhatigan says.

    She adds, "We have had immigrant members of the military going back to the Revolutionary War."

    Mark Krikorian, the executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies, says Americans should keep watch on the Pentagon to make sure it doesn't go beyond the current program.


    "My concern is not that the current situation is a problem, but that it could grow into a problem if the Pentagon gives into the temptation of using citizenship -- or even an offer of a green card -- as a way of enticing non-citizens to enlist," says Krikorian. His Washington think-tank advocates less immigration, but better treatment for those who are admitted.

    In the case of Ramos-Villalta, he says it's been a painstaking process because he's been deployed to war; he was wounded in action; and is now training for a third combat deployment, leaving him little time to deal with the paperwork and lawyers needed to file for citizenship.

    "It's frustrating and sometimes I get real sad about it," he says. "There is nothing I can do about it. I mean it's not up to the military. It's up to Immigration Services."

    Rhatigan says her agency is doing the best it can to make sure military members know where they can turn to get help. They've established a hotline (1-877-247-4645) and set up a Web site at www.uscis.gov/military to help better inform these immigrants.

    "We're there for them," she says.

    Ramos-Villalta fled El Salvador's civil war in 1989 with his family as a young boy and lived in the States for a time. He returned to El Salvador with his mother, while his father stayed in California to work. He eventually made it back to Southern California and got his green card when he was 13.

    He graduated from Santa Ana High School in 2004, becoming the first in his family to graduate from high school.

    His 17-year-old sister, Ivette Ramos-Villalta, beams when she talks about her brother's military service. "He's fighting for a country that is not even his, but because he grew up here he keeps fighting because it's the country he actually loves," she says.


    What would it mean to Ramos-Villalta if he gets U.S. citizenship?

    "It would make me feel great about myself. I think I do deserve to be a U.S. citizen, and I would actually fight for my country knowing I'm an American fighting for my country."
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/19/gre...ine/index.html

    I believe a Purple Heart should mean instant citizenship. American by spilt blood.

    But the whole process needs to be made easier for non-citizens.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man With No Name View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/19/gre...ine/index.html

    I believe a Purple Heart should mean instant citizenship. American by spilt blood.

    But the whole process needs to be made easier for non-citizens.
    If they put American blood in him while at a hospital, he's ours now!

    Though, seriously, I think those who have made sacrifices and fought for our country should be allowed to attain American citizenship if they so choose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Go on Farnan, go and help those despicable thugs you call our soldiers to kill some of the poorest people on the planet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Don't you realize that it is a good thing that so many British soldiers have already been killed as punishment for the invasion?


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence of Arabia View Post
    If they put American blood in him while at a hospital, he's ours now!
    Though, seriously, I think those who have made sacrifices and fought for our country should be allowed to attain American citizenship if they so choose.
    This reminds of the Gurkha's in Britain, who were refused citizenship for 50 years for no reason. and still today.

  4. #4
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    If these guys get killed, are they counted in the "official" statistics (the one that is approaching 4,000)?




  5. #5
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    If these guys get killed, are they counted in the "official" statistics (the one that is approaching 4,000)?
    Absoluetely, they are part of the US military.

    And there is no outsourcing, these soldiers must first move to the US legally and then they can join.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  6. #6

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man With No Name View Post
    I believe a Purple Heart should mean instant citizenship. American by spilt blood.
    I would agree with that. Thats how the French deal with soldiers in the foreign legion who are wounded.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    I would agree with that. Thats how the French deal with soldiers in the foreign legion who are wounded.
    Any man serving in the legion for 5 years has the option of french citizenship, wounded or not.
    I suppose the US isn't at that point yet where it offers citizenship in exchange for military service. I've read somewhere that the Pentagon theoretically would have the possibility to offer military service for foreign citizens in exchange for a green-card but that they haven't made use of it thus far.
    I gotta be honest, I'd join if it would help me to permanently stay in the US.
    Last edited by Rapax; March 20, 2008 at 05:43 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
    Any man serving in the legion for 5 years has the option of french citizenship, wounded or not.
    I suppose the US isn't at that point yet where it offers citizenship in exchange for military service. I've read somewhere that the Pentagon theoretically would have the possibility to offer military service for foreign citizens in exchange for a green-card but that they haven't made use of it thus far.
    I gotta be honest, I'd join if it would help me to permanently move to the US.
    No patriotism for Germany?!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    I like my country, I did my 2 years in the army, but really, I prefer the US as the next country to live in, as the next step. I'm not a patriotic person per se, so I don't feel like a special bond with germany or anything. I'd have no worries leaving.

  10. #10
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
    Any man serving in the legion for 5 years has the option of french citizenship, wounded or not.
    I suppose the US isn't at that point yet where it offers citizenship in exchange for military service. I've read somewhere that the Pentagon theoretically would have the possibility to offer military service for foreign citizens in exchange for a green-card but that they haven't made use of it thus far.
    I gotta be honest, I'd join if it would help me to permanently stay in the US.
    There is a program for expedited citizenship, only problem is there is a back log (and time is needed for paperwork).
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  11. #11

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man With No Name View Post
    There is a program for expedited citizenship, only problem is there is a back log (and time is needed for paperwork).
    Correct. My brother became a citizen (previously green card holder) through 10 months of waiting (while he was in Iraq). The only difference is that he didn't have to pay for the application fee (don't know how much now , I paid 500 bucks) , meanwhile me, I spent 6 years in the Army, went in with a green card , came out with a green card.
    The difference is that I got honorably discharged in 2001, before the **** hit the fan.

  12. #12
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
    Any man serving in the legion for 5 years has the option of french citizenship, wounded or not.
    Yes, but you got citizenship quicker if you are wounded.

    For legionnaire who serve up to five years and apply for citizenship, they normally have to wait for another one to two years. Also, it is not guaranteed legionnaire who serve five years can successfully get French citizenship recently, since you need to past some nasty French exams...

    Edit: By the way, is it possible to join ROTC if you are foreigner??

  13. #13
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Edit: By the way, is it possible to join ROTC if you are foreigner??
    You cannot recieve a commission if you do not have US Citizenship, so no.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  14. #14

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Yes, but you got citizenship quicker if you are wounded.

    For legionnaire who serve up to five years and apply for citizenship, they normally have to wait for another one to two years. Also, it is not guaranteed legionnaire who serve five years can successfully get French citizenship recently, since you need to past some nasty French exams...
    Oh well, I just went after a documentary I've seen. I guess in any case you could say it's easier to get a citizenship than in the US. The FFL is actually a brilliant idea if you think about it.

  15. #15
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
    Oh well, I just went after a documentary I've seen. I guess in any case you could say it's easier to get a citizenship than in the US. The FFL is actually a brilliant idea if you think about it.
    Ya, but from recent cases it seems harder and harder... French are starting to follow American...

  16. #16
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    That is something I don't get. A bussiness can get you a green card, but no the military. Its due to politics though, people would complain that we were tricking foreigners.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  17. #17
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    This says one thing about manhood and earning rights.

    And another thing about out-sourcing.

    Perhaps when the second decision is made, the first should be taken into account.

    He fully deserves citizenship BTW.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    I didn't even realize non citizens were allowed to enlist in the armed forces?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pontifex_ View Post
    I didn't even realize non citizens were allowed to enlist in the armed forces?
    Desperate?

  20. #20
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Citizenship for soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by kb8 View Post
    Desperate?
    We've been recruiting non-citizens since 1775, its not desperation in the least.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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