Hannibal's place in RS2. Crazy idea...

[Mulattothrasher]

What if, upon Carthage's defeat in Italy an event/script/something could be set to fire where hes "magically" transported to Antiochus III's court as what happened historically in 195 B.C. even if the hes killed in Italy or once Carthage has lost all towns/forts in Italy?

Theres two valid arguments to this, and its fine either way:

- Seeing how the A.I. seems to hate it's general's well being overall, Hannibal's dead in Italy by the Romans. This will happen 99% of the time unless the human player is Carthage. This is not historical but is Hannibal's likely fate...

- On the other hand, he did not die in Italy. He later fought under Antiochus III (as an admiral , but we cannot have naval battles in RTW). This would enable Seleucid player could use him as an army general in some way. This is historical, but makes Hannibal defy an A.I. death in Italy...

So do we leave it up to the game or do we choose to alter the game's history a bit to make it more historical? Just wondering what y'all's take on this is?

[Nellup]

My main concern is that if this is possible, it would only be so by scripting, and scripts are the scum of the earth as far as TW is concerned.
Also if we did this, it would lead to the same issue as using the BC/AD dates - people would complain that he wasn't going at the correct time etc.

[cherryfunk]

I'd rather not. The campaign creates its own history, I hate the idea of tying it to actual reality once it starts. What if Hannibal is killed in battle? Then he's magically raised from the dead and sent to Seleucia? That would take me out of the game, not further immerse me in it...

But, thumbs up for thinking outside the box!

[Mulattothrasher]

I agree with the magical reappearance in Seleucid territory being a bit far fetched and unreal. Maybe if Carthage looses all towns/cities in Italy then he could show up with Antiochus III or something? I just hate seeing a significant historical character forced to fall victim to the guaranteed suicide under assured A.I. incompetence.

With scripts, I think maybe we are influenced to scripts = EBs sluggish pace with it's Great Pyramid sized script. I was doing some deleting in EB's script a couple months ago. Keep in mind my PC is very old. I have 1.5 RAM running at 1.9 mhz, and a old 256MB nvidia 5700LE. I deleted the section of the script that checks each city for a lvl 4 government. Thats the part that gives the game its super slow pace, especially on older PCs. During each faction's rotation during the turns it only took 2-3 seconds at the most. I'm not saying that is too slow, or saying its fast enough. What I did took their script from an original 11-12 MB I think down to 6-7MB.

RS 2.0 would need tons of scripting to reach that size. I was strongly against adding scripts to RS 2.0, but I'm not so sure anymore that scripts would become as detrimental to RS now :hmmm:

[Drtad]

I'd suggest that Hannibal, if killed in battle due to AI incompetence (if its the player who loses him, he is gone for good) he should reappear as a Seleucid General, and if defeated there, he should appear as an Armenian king's ancilliary and would provide construction bonii since he did build the new Armenian capital of Artashat (called the "Armenian Carthage" by the Romans).

It shouldn't require huge amounts of scripting to just make a character called Hannibal appear somewhere after his defeat somewhere else. I know that FRRE has similar scripts which don't lag the game at all (Titus Labienus starts out as Caesar's ally, but then defects to the Pompeiian faction).

[cherryfunk]

I'd suggest that Hannibal, if killed in battle due to AI incompetence (if its the player who loses him, he is gone for good) he should reappear as a Seleucid General, and if defeated there, he should appear as an Armenian king's ancilliary and would provide construction bonii since he did build the new Armenian capital of Artashat (called the "Armenian Carthage" by the Romans).

Well, I see this kind of thing as a very low priority, and I'm concerned about heavy use of scripts, and I'm also concerned about possible bugs (if there's any chance of a campaign-killing bug then there's no way it's worth it) -- that said, I'm not 100% opposed to the idea. Just seems to me we have much more important things to focus on...

Also, if Hannibal goes over to the Seleucid court, it might make more sense for him to appear as an ancillary to the Seleucid king, giving a high command and movement bonus, since he acted more as an adviser than a field commander...

With scripts, I think maybe we are influenced to scripts = EBs sluggish pace with it's Great Pyramid sized script. I was doing some deleting in EB's script a couple months ago. Keep in mind my PC is very old. I have 1.5 RAM running at 1.9 mhz, and a old 256MB nvidia 5700LE. I deleted the section of the script that checks each city for a lvl 4 government. Thats the part that gives the game its super slow pace, especially on older PCs. During each faction's rotation during the turns it only took 2-3 seconds at the most. I'm not saying that is too slow, or saying its fast enough. What I did took their script from an original 11-12 MB I think down to 6-7MB.

This is fascinating... to think that that one process is adding so much processing time -- and for what purpose? I've played EB and could never figure out their government system. I guess it's more realistic, but I'm not sure it's any fun to play...

[Bebbe]

Hey , Mulatto. That's an old PC to you ? You should see mine. Stone age , I tell you.

So the government system of EB is the thing that slows it down ? ..And I don't even care that much about that feature.

[Mulattothrasher]

Yes, that what slows that game down so much. What its doing is "looking" at every city each faction owns, and determining if theres a lvl 4 government. So, every turn, the script is forced to look at every city in the game practically and slowing it all down. What this check does, I've no idea. I've not played EB in a few months, but I can't recall the game being really any different without that part of the script. It runs much much faster without it.

I would wager if RS2 had a script as big as EB does, minus the city by city check, it would still run fast even on older systems

[Bebbe]

Really ? Maybe I'll look into the script and see if I understand anything ( unlikely ).

[dvk901]

Well, LT1956 uses a script in SPQR that starts automatically, and bascially does a few things......the 'garrison' thing, etc. I have no problem with scripts that don't require your attention, perform a specific task at a given time or randomly, and then get out of the way. It's the scripts, as you guys say, that have to make long massive 'checks' on things that will kill speed.

As far as Hannibel is concerned, the whole is cool...but the problem is...how do you determine that he is alive or dead? And, how do you 'spawn' him elsewhere 'after' he's defeated in Italy or elsewhere, AND assuming he's alive.

It would be kinda cool though, playing as a Seleucid player, and then all of a sudden Hannibel pops up as one of your Generals.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

I don't know, if no one ever made Pyhrrus head to Sicily in RS 1.5, why have Hannibal go somewhere? It's a cool idea but in campaigns I like to make my own history... plus killing the immersion. Don't want to have to kill the same guy twice!

The ancilliary is a neat idea, and probably only a few players will notice it.

[Gotthard]

I could never understand why they checked EVERY CITY, EVERY TURN. Why not just check every year for a new government? Why not check, only upon the construction of a building critical to advancement? Why count EVERY STRUCTURE necessary, when for most triggers even the loss of one will count the trigger as failing? Eb has given a bad name to scripts. They are horrendously inefficient (RTW uses 1.1 gig ram with EB, like 400-500 with RS... I guess other things are in there as well of course).

A simple script for this (or even a complicated one) shouldn't result in a noticeable performance problem.

[edit]

Have Hannibal given an ancillary that is unique to him (call it Hannibal ) When he dies, so does his ancillary. Check for if not factionWideAncillary Exists Hannibal, if so, create Hannibal for Seleucid's. Might not even require scripting... Squid could say for sure.

[cherryfunk]

Have Hannibal given an ancillary that is unique to him (call it Hannibal ) When he dies, so does his ancillary. Check for if not factionWideAncillary Exists Hannibal, if so, create Hannibal for Seleucid's. Might not even require scripting... Squid could say for sure.

Call it 'Hannibal's Divine Genius'

[Mulattothrasher]

If anything on this topic comes to pass into the game, I would say Hannibal needs to be his own general, not an ancillary. Reason being is many players do not even notice or pay much attention to the ancillaries anyway (I don't at least) and this would run a high risk of Hannibal not even being realized by a Seleucid player.

As a general, hes sure to at least be recognized on the map. Even if the player decides to stick him in a city as governor until he dies, he'll be known as being in the Seleucid camp and not an ancillary.

[dvk901]

Awww....let's just make him his own FACTION.

[Mulattothrasher]

One man...versus the world. Hannibal!

[Drtad]

As far as Hannibel is concerned, the whole is cool...but the problem is...how do you determine that he is alive or dead? And, how do you 'spawn' him elsewhere 'after' he's defeated in Italy or elsewhere, AND assuming he's alive.

I dunno, but I know it is possible to script something like that. FRRE, a rather fast mod, has tons of scripting like that.

[The10thLegion]

How about we make him a general for Armenia, Carthage, and Selucia.

We could just have different ages for him so that he could be the right age in each faction, but it may not work