history channel - dark ages

[midnite]

Anyone watch the new program from the history channel -- the dark ages? I saw part of it and it starts out with the sack of Rome by the Goths. It also talks about Constantine and also Justinian's attempt at re-creating the Roman empire.

[Zodiac]

It's a pretty old program honestly. Also did you notice the part where they actually discussed Rome Total War and it's expansion? I thought it was cool...

[midnite]

It's a pretty old program honestly. Also did you notice the part where they actually discussed Rome Total War and it's expansion? I thought it was cool...

Actually the "dark ages" I saw did not mention anything about RTW. It basically covered the time period of 400ad to 1050ad. I believe the program was filmed in 2007 and first shown in 2008.

interesting discussion
As for the re-creating the empire. The program stated that Justinian wanted to re-create the Roman empire as it stood in imperial times where "the mediterranean was considered a Roman lake".

I also agree with thebigbossnahhh. If Rome is not part of the "Roman empire" then how can it really be "The Roman Empire". it should really be called Eastern Roman Empire and not the Roman empire. IMHO

[Pompeius Magnus]

If Rome is not part of the "Roman empire" then how can it really be "The Roman Empire". it should really be called Eastern Roman Empire and not the Roman empire. IMHO

Perhaps you read my late roman thread (just click in my signature). There are some explanations about your city "Rome". Or you read my last posts here in this thread again.
Also the terms Eastern Roman Empire or Western Roman Empire were never used by the Romans. Also this would be a fantasy-name.
With IBFD (or BI in general) we have to find name our Empires. We can't (due to technically reasons) give both empires the same name. So we take the name which was given by the people and the ruling class. Imperium Romanum Orientalis or Occidentalis. Technically it means "Roman Empire in the east" or "in the west".
"Rome is there, where the Emperor is.", that's what nealry all emperors said in the late antique. (it is historical)

@Marcus Bestia
it is good to hear that another User understood the difference between a multi-ethnic city, a multi-ethic state and the idea of Rome.

[Pompeius Magnus]

Anyone watch the new program from the history channel -- the dark ages? I saw part of it and it starts out with the sack of Rome by the Goths. It also talks about Constantine and also Justinian's attempt at re-creating the Roman empire.

what means re-creating?:hmmm:
when was the roman empire destroyed according your opinion?

[Lord Agelmar]

what means re-creating?:hmmm:
when was the roman empire destroyed according your opinion?

It is generally accepted that the Western portion of the Empire fell in 476 AD. In the 500's Justinian, the Eastern Emperor had conquered much of the old territory of the West and toyed with the idea of re-establishing the Western portion. Unfortunatly the infastructure had been to barbarized and it became to costly to hold onto those provinces.

That is just it in a nutshell really.

[Pompeius Magnus]

yes, I know. But that doesn't make the theory more correct or realistic.

In generally (if you use this word) you learn in all univercities in germany absolutely other facts since the last 10 years. And I am happy about that.

First of all, Nepos was the last western emperor dressed in "purple". Romulus Augustus was (or better said his father) an usurper.

The Roman Empire was not destroyed in 476AD.

Correct is: There was no 2nd Emperor in the west "dressed in purple".
But it wasn't the end. Odoaker and later Theoderic ruled as Princeps Romanus in the west.
The Roman Empire survived until 1453 as Basileia ton Rhomaion - the Empire of the Romans.

But in general an empire like in the late antique wasn't anymore existent in the west. That is right so far.
But I get always an allergic-reaction if I hear that the Roman Empire in general was destroyed after disempowerment of a young boy.

At least here on TWCenter I think that we should know that much better than the normal people.

[Coni]

But in general an empire like in the late antique wasn't anymore existent in the west. That is right so far.
But I get always an allergic-reaction if I hear that the Roman Empire in general was destroyed after disempowerment of a young boy.

yep
I understand this "reaction".
We had this discussion at least 10 times in the last years.
But the facts are that the last Roman Emperor was Constantine XI Palaiologos.

[julianus heraclius]

I concur with Pompeius and Coni. The empire survived after the "fall" in the west. The eastern romans always saw themselves as romans

[Pompeius Magnus]

Exactly. An they were the Romans by law.
I never heard anything about an Emperor who said: "Now I am no more Roman, now I am greek". Never!

The title Basileios was, by the way, not new. It was an old greek title, even known in the ancient world of Phillip B and his son Alexandros.
Greek language was always an important part in the empire, even in the roman republic.
We still find the Tribune (Tribounos) of the people in the city of Constantinople in the high middle age. Also the Senate was still working.
Units like Excubitores were direct connected to the old Legions.

The name "Byzantine Empire" was given in the 16th century by german historians. It was a fantasy name. If we accept it or not. The name was never used by the romans in the east.

It was the Roman Empire!
The people said: Είμαστε Ρωμαίοι (We are Romans)
And Coni is absolutely right if he say that Constantine XI Palaiologos was the last Roman Emperor in the world. Especially Constantine XI was very very proud on his roman sources.

[Marcus Bestia]

Exactly. An they were the Romans by law.
I never heard anything about an Emperor who said: "Now I am no more Roman, now I am greek". Never!

The title Basileios was, by the way, not new. It was an old greek title, even known in the ancient world of Phillip B and his son Alexandros.
Greek language was always an important part in the empire, even in the roman republic.
We still find the Tribune (Tribounos) of the people in the city of Constantinople in the high middle age. Also the Senate was still working.
Units like Excubitores were direct connected to the old Legions.

The name "Byzantine Empire" was given in the 16th century by german historians. It was a fantasy name. If we accept it or not. The name was never used by the romans in the east.

It was the Roman Empire!
The people said: Είμαστε Ρωμαίοι (We are Romans)
And Coni is absolutely right if he say that Constantine XI Palaiologos was the last Roman Emperor in the world. Especially Constantine XI was very very proud on his roman sources.

i agree with you. The main problem in disccusions like this is majority of people connects idea of Roman empire with city of Rome. When Italy was conquered by barbarians, almost no one among "normal" people thinks about continuity of Roman empire on the east, in the Constantinopolis. With fall of Rome fell whole empire, this is what people think today.
In my country, the schoolbook say western part of roman empire ended at 476. But i met also with different opinions (406, 410, 455).

[Lord Agelmar]

Ah yes, I realize what you are saying in that the Roman Empire lived on in the East until 1453. I was just saying that the western half fell and Justinian attempted to re-add those places to what was still considered the Roman empire.

[Pompeius Magnus]

In this case you are 100% right.
Iustinian was called the Restorer of the Roman Empire. That is doutless correct.

[thebigbossnahhh]

In this case you are 100% right.
Iustinian was called the Restorer of the Roman Empire. That is doutless correct.

The whole point of the Roman Empire is Rome, Roma if that is no longer the centre base as the Empire then what is Rome without it's spiritual city, it's birth place.

Constantinople was thee most greatest city of those times, worthy of any Emperor but without Rome then it ceases to be Roman.
If Hannibal maintained his sacking of Rome rather than leave then it would be a knife to the heart of all Rome.
Who knows it may of well killed the Roman Empire?