What are zweihanders good for?

[briny_norman]

Hi, I'm playing the Knights Templar on hard/hard and zweihanders have just become available to me.
They sure look cool, but I have a hard time seeing why I should train them - dismounted knights templar seem a much better investment - they cost the same in upkeep and the zweihanders are only a little cheeper to train.
On the battlefield the zweihanders perform significantly worse than the knights - they have way lower defence (because of the missing shield) and only a small bonus to the charge-value.
In an even fight against spear-wielding foes they only manage a 1:2 killing ratio while the knights usually end up between 1:3 and 1:4 (sometimes even better).
So, can anybody tell me why I should train zweihanders at all? - apart from the visual delights, of course (two-handed swords look cool - and the combat animations are fun to watch too).

[AnthoniusII]

To cut down spear unit!

[spanish_emperor]

yeah i've tested units out in custom battles, including these guys, and to me it is obvious that defense is way more important than anything else. You can have a unit with 13 attack and 15 defense (example) against one with 15 attack and 13 defense and guess who will win (charge is the same)
Well the one with more defense will win....you probably thought it would be a draw or maybe a close defeat. But in reality they get destroyed.(even when charge is stronger for zweihanders)

Oh any this is with units that have shield....if they had more armour instead of shield it would be worse for the zweihanders.
Try it if you don't believe me.

So i conclusion i don't see the point to have them as units...unless you drastically increase their attack or increase their defense a little bit to balance them out, like i do.
P.S actually i tested this out in SS 4.1 a while back and i still haven't played them in 5.1 so i don't know if they have changed. but by what you tell me they haven't been changed a lot.

[evenflowjimbo]

They should just be a well-trained Beserker squad, like hitting bodies in the air...

[Banzai!]

They should just be a well-trained Beserker squad, like hitting bodies in the air...

I thought M2TW kept the beserker attribute. Maybe you could add beserker to their attributes?

[delra]

They are good in everything except walls.

[Lord_Calidor]

They are great as secondary troops, ie to fight with already engaged enemies. Charging & flanking already engaged knights will usually rout them really fast. Also in siege battles (whether attacking or defending) I've noticed from post-combat report, that they have highest number of kills, but also take more casualties. Playing as HRE, them & Burghers are fastest among foot melee units in collecting exp.

[andymate]

I added AP to all the two handers including zweihanders.

[burninglegionx]

They are great as secondary troops, ie to fight with already engaged enemies. Charging & flanking already engaged knights will usually rout them really fast. Also in siege battles (whether attacking or defending) I've noticed from post-combat report, that they have highest number of kills, but also take more casualties. Playing as HRE, them & Burghers are fastest among foot melee units in collecting exp.

zwihanders are good but shield-wielding 'heavy' units are better (even at flanking). That's why they need to be buffed a bit. Hopefuly KK improved their attack and/or defense in ss6.0

[Hmz..]

If you want to beat armor you need axes wich have AP. Zweihanders are far better against light and unarmored targets then axes. Problem is that late game most units have a lot of armor. They are very good at flanking since armor is less in the flank.

Sword and shield inf are good alrounders but zweihanders are very good if you know how to use them.

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Zweihanders and other 2handed armoured units are like heavy cavalry of the infantry, they are good at raw shock charge, but not very much in prolonged melee against units with shields, because of slow sword swinging (at least that's what I learned from Lusted's Kingdoms rebalance stuff). Also good as reserve for later shock value to tip the balance of battle as others said.
So flank, charge, regroup, repeat, 'nuf said

[Jingles]

Honestly I dont care if they're rubbish...I build them simply because they look so awesome! But like Vytautas said, they're best as a reserve. In fact I tend to put nearly all my heavy infantry in reserve...

[Valdamar]

Carrying rams. Their attack needs to be increased and their maintenance, lowered. Since they should have a slight anti-cav bonus like most two handed sword units they're good for busting gates and engaging the cavalry in cities. At the very least they need lowered maintenance to make them worthwhile as shock troops in my army.

[Lord_Calidor]

Oh yeah, forgot one thing - I put them between Burghers in a very thin, usually 2-3 ranks deep formation, to cut down any dudes who pass the wall of pikes. That way, they dont take big casualties, and deal with any intruders super-fast.

[Point Blank]

They kill faster, they die faster. The increased kill rate, especially after a charge, has a better chance or routing the enemy. They will suffer in prolonged melee vs sword and shield troops.

[Henry X]

I find them fun to use on Sword and Buckler men.