Sin in Heaven

**gambit** · March 17, 2008, 10:25 PM

Well I was having a conversation with a friend of mine about the possiblity and/or consequence of sin in Heaven. Now my friend is considered a 'devout' christian who basically thinks he knows everything and I dont, because I sin.

He tried to tell me that, if I believed we go to heaven, when we are in heaven we cannot sin or even conceive the thought of it and we will be completely oblivious to our earthly lives. Now I'm not scholar but I'm pretty sure if I got into heaven there would be nothing stopping me from looking God in the face (metaphorically since he has no physical form) and saying "**** you, you bastard!"

Can someone who's well-versed in the bible emphasize if we would be capable of sin if we were in heaven? I'm guessing God would simply banish you to hell but I'm curious if it gets more specific in the bible.

**The Good** · March 17, 2008, 10:48 PM

If you do enter heaven, you will lose any desire to say such a thing to God. Also, if you go to heaven, that's assuming you worshiped Him in the first place.

**Roman Knight** · March 18, 2008, 03:06 AM

That's a lot of assumptions Lucius, care to go a little deeper?

**~~Exarch~~** · March 18, 2008, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sam Fisher

If you do enter heaven, you will lose any desire to say such a thing to God. Also, if you go to heaven, that's assuming you worshiped Him in the first place.

that is some free will

**H_man** · March 18, 2008, 08:55 PM

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature[c]; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[d] 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

**gambit** · March 18, 2008, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by H_man

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature[c]; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[d] 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Sooo...because I sin and don't listen to God's word I instantly don't love others? Great, I'l notify my parents and friends.

**H_man** · March 18, 2008, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gambit

Sooo...because I sin and don't listen to God's word I instantly don't love others? Great, I'l notify my parents and friends.

Nope. Not at all. It doesn't say that anywhere.

**Sidmen** · March 18, 2008, 03:12 AM

Basically, if you go to heaven, you won't be Gambit anymore, you'll be a mindless ball/square/cloud of energy with no desires or thoughts of your own..

Same thing in hell, but you'll be in pain while you can't think or do anything...

**Asevias Black** · March 18, 2008, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by Sidmen

Basically, if you go to heaven, you won't be Gambit anymore, you'll be a mindless ball/square/cloud of energy with no desires or thoughts of your own..

Same thing in hell, but you'll be in pain while you can't think or do anything...

I personally hope I am a square...

Just so while I am resting in heaven/hell I can think "Thats what those bastards meant when they said be here or be square..."

**bushbush** · March 18, 2008, 04:08 AM

once in heaven, you will become a robot. period.

**Asevias Black** · March 18, 2008, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by bushbush

once in heaven, you will become a robot. period.

I find a major fault in that theory. I have yet to actually meet a robot capable of having a period...

**Zenith Darksea** · March 18, 2008, 05:55 AM

I understand that in traditional Orthodox Christianity (which, unlike the more recent, Western expressions of Christianity such as Catholicism and Protestantism, has a mystical rather than systematic theology) Heaven is more a state of being rather than a physical place, since presumably after the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the Earth we shall still live on the Earth in spatial terms (I may be wrong though). Orthodox Christianity however has a belief in theosis, which means that mankind will be united to God, almost deified (though not in the Mormon sense). For one thing, those people who become united to God will have already made a complete rejection of sin (you would not be united to God otherwise), and at any rate, those people in Heaven would be so full of God's Grace as not to be tempted by sin.

**gambit** · March 18, 2008, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

I understand that in traditional Orthodox Christianity (which, unlike the more recent, Western expressions of Christianity such as Catholicism and Protestantism, has a mystical rather than systematic theology) Heaven is more a state of being rather than a physical place, since presumably after the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the Earth we shall still live on the Earth in spatial terms (I may be wrong though). Orthodox Christianity however has a belief in theosis, which means that mankind will be united to God, almost deified (though not in the Mormon sense). For one thing, those people who become united to God will have already made a complete rejection of sin (you would not be united to God otherwise), and at any rate, those people in Heaven would be so full of God's Grace as not to be tempted by sin.

So, we'd basically become mindless servants like adam and eve were before they took a bite of the fruit of the tree of life? Hahaha what ****, I thought God said he wants us to have free will?

**Zenith Darksea** · March 18, 2008, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Gambit

So, we'd basically become mindless servants like adam and eve were before they took a bite of the fruit of the tree of life? Hahaha what ****, I thought God said he wants us to have free will?

I suspect that you have, for whatever reason, missed the point slightly.

Originally Posted by me

those people who become united to God will have already made a complete rejection of sin

Unfortunately it is often the case that non-Christians, particularly secular humanists, find that they can't help but misrepresent what they are not prepared to understand.

**gambit** · March 18, 2008, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

I suspect that you have, for whatever reason, missed the point slightly.

Actually Christians do say a complete rejection of sin IS impossible as we are born sinful (isn't that convenient) and our race as a whole personifies sin. Either way, I know you mean all Christians going into Heaven no longer have sin in their hearts but that just proves to me more, how much the bible contradicts itself. I'm probably wrong but it seems to me God is saying "Sure you have free will and can do what you want...until you're in heaven for eternity."

Heaven is well..heaven so I suppose it's not too bad at all. Still this quote comes to mind (I dont know who said it and dont have the time to look it up, gotta go to school) "It is better to live one day as a lion than a hundred days as a sheep." One day being a metaphor for our earthly lives.

**johnny5000** · March 18, 2008, 07:31 AM

Also, in heaven, do we get to ride unicorns every day, or is that only on special occasions?

**Zenith Darksea** · March 18, 2008, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gambit

Actually Christians do say a complete rejection of sin IS impossible as we are born sinful

Well, Roman Catholics say that. Orthodox Christianity does not believe that however. We are born with the consequences of ancestral sin (death), but we are not born with the guilt of it. And with God's help a complete rejection of sin is possible. The virgin Mary is an example of someone who completely rejected sin, as are the saints. No doubt Roman Catholicism and Protestantism will present different views, but I think that that is rather academic since they are both considerably younger confessions than Orthodoxy.

**chriscase** · March 18, 2008, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gambit

Now I'm not scholar but I'm pretty sure if I got into heaven there would be nothing stopping me from looking God in the face (metaphorically since he has no physical form) and saying "**** you, you bastard!"

I recall from one of my history classes that medieval people really thought their existence would go on more or less as before, only without death, disease, old age, mass murder, and the other really crappy stuff that people in that time dealt with on a frequent basis.

I guess it's like the things people say they will do if they win the lottery. Mostly it's B.S., but who cares? If you ever have to deal with it, that means you won the lottery.

**wilting** · March 18, 2008, 01:36 PM

I find the concept of heaven intellectually horrifying. No free will is 'heaven'?

Good thing there is no evidence to support this theory and all it amounts to is wishful thinking. Of course, the flip side of that is how this wishful thinking affects society.