Chartaginean Army

[Mikail Mengsk]

Before starting the campaign i tried to familiarize with chartginean units, in order to train only the best effective mix of units.

I battled against Numidian and Macedonians.

I see that Libyophenician Spearmen are very profitable: low cost, good defence, excellent to hold the main line. With sacred band's andthe general's support they can hold until reinforcements' arrival.

Sacred Band didn't make me very enthusiastic: too expensive to train and to mantain, and in battle they didn't do as well as their cost could suggest :hmmm:

Spanish mercenaries are a good assault infantry: fast, launches pila, good attack. Good for protecting spearmen's flanks, for flanking the enemy and for hitting weak points in the enemy's main line.

Scutari Cavalry is even better than sacred band's cavalry! Heavily armored, powerful charge. Excellent for the main cavalry charges.

Punic cavalry is good for storming enemy rear lines, chasing archers and support scutari's charges.

Elephants are units that can secure victory if you use it in the right place and in the right moment. If you make them charge an enemy unprepared andyou send other units in the weak point after their charge, you can overrun everything!


WHat do you think about them???

[Erwin Rommel]

chartginean???

[Tony83]

I think you've summed up the Carthaginian's pretty well, Mikail. The Libyan-Phonecian Spearmen are my personal favourites. Good solid infantry that forms the backbone of my armies.

[Mikail Mengsk]

chartginean???

PLEASE tell me which is the name in English, i don't know!!!!!!! Maybe Carthaginian?


@Tony- i like them much better than punic infantry, beacuse of the cheaper cost, do tou think i'm right or the punic are better? I prefere to have cheap troops in the main line, and have better troops (expecially cavalry) in reserve, ready to outflank the enemy

[Tony83]

The English translations would be Carthage and Carthaginian.

I think the L-P spearmen are great value for the main battle line as they can hold their own against most other infantry and cavalry for a very reasonable cost. And the Punic infantry are very flexible and are ideal for covering the flanks of the spearmen, or for direct assaults in sieges.

[Erwin Rommel]

its Carthaginian

welcome to the forums BTW

soon you will be sucked here till you have quadruple digit posts

carthage is best for cav, dirt cheap to elephants

[Mikail Mengsk]

soon you will be sucked here till you have quadruple digit posts

??? i didn't understood! Digit posts? It's something about my being a novice?

BTW thanks for greetings, Colonel! This forum is great, i'm gonna spend much time here, despite my not-very-well english


I've done another custom battle against iberians, my future enemy in the next campaign. They have great sword troops but they lack of spears.

Sacred Bands again had a bad day. I think i'll replace them with punic infantry and spend the rest of money in upgrades .

Elephants did VERY BAD because of my catastrophic maneuvering. A unit of spanish scutari falcata intercept them when i was sending them to outflank another unit . They killed only TWELVE scutarii before being annihilated . But i won't replace them, it was my mistake that brought them to defeat.

Cavalry again had done a good work! Both scutari and punic stormed enemy lines and killed hundreds of iberians! I love it! As the Colonel said, cheap and devastating .

Libyans spearmen and iberian mercenaries also had a GREAT day, they will definitely be the backbone of my future CARTHAGINIANS () armies!

[Korlon]

You know that post number next your your name on the left? That's what he was talking about. He's saying you're going to be hooked on the forums till you get to more than 4 digit posts, meaning more than a thousand.

Elephants can do great things , but you got to use them properly. Absolute annihilation if used against flanks and sides, but they can't be bogged down at all.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Aaaaaaaaaah 4 digit (1-0-0-0) means more than a thousand posts, i didn't understood ! Thanks Korlon

Yeah elephants can make you win a battle easily, but if you make a wrong move they will be slaughtered in a while . Damned Scutarii !

They are also very expensive to mantain, do you suggest to keep them or disband quickly after decisive battles? Maybe keep only a few of them? :hmmm:

[Mikail Mengsk]

Another test, this time against Romans with some unit of hastati, many many legionnaires (one of them with the aquila), one unit of triarii, 4 equites alares, 2 cretean archers and a unit of velites.

Heroic victory, the AI this time didn't try many tactics and left his cavalry being charged and annihilated by mine without trying to avoid it.

I tried Poeni Citizen infantry instead of Sacred Band's infantry: they have long pikes and they are a damn wall! I think i find sacred band's heirs . They are much more effective as anvil , at the end of the battle they lost only 8-9 soldiers each and killed about 40-50 enemies each. More important, they held the whole center of my line of battle .

THis time elephants had a great time, crushing the entire right flank of the Romans (already engaged by Iberian Mercenaries) and allow my cavalry and the Iberians to smash into the roman center (who was battling with the spearmen), annihilating it

Cavalry and Iberian Mercenaries did as well as usual, while libyan spearmen suffered heavy losses from legionnaires, but they hold the line anyway.

[Korlon]

Elephants are great fun. If I had access, I generally got a unit of them. Generally, if your economy's great, you can have fun with them. If your economy's weak, get rid of them. They're useful, but maybe something else is better suited for the money spent.

[Mikail Mengsk]

You're right, 2000 denarii of maintenance cost is crazy! But it's appropriate . I Started a campaign with Carthage and in the first years i thought about disband the only unit that i had, in Sicily. But my economy started to grow, so now i can affort their cost, so i didn't disband them . An elephant unit is a MUST if you play Carthage (and Bactria of course)

[carthagetotalwar]

Just a tip: Due not keep Sacred Band infantry on guard mode. I like to usually keep them on the flakes. They'll destroy or hold their own against mostly anything that comes their way, and are excellent for flaking the enemy.

I would also actually recommend Sacred Band Cavalry over the Scutarii cavalry. They are faster, have better stamina, better to chase routers, and have the "frighten" infantry attribute. Their defense skill is also higher, making them better against other cavalry.

[AqD]

Just a tip: Due not keep Sacred Band infantry on guard mode. I like to usually keep them on the flakes. They'll destroy or hold their own against mostly anything that comes their way, and are excellent for flaking the enemy.

I would also actually recommend Sacred Band Cavalry over the Scutarii cavalry. They are faster, have better stamina, better to chase routers, and have the "frighten" infantry attribute. Their defense skill is also higher, making them better against other cavalry.

Heh, actually it's the opposite:

Sacred Band Cavalry: attack 8, charge 26, defense 8/7/0 (armour/skill/shield), heavy horse, very good stamina

Scutarii Cavalry: attack 8, charge 26, defense 12/4/5, heavy horse, good stamina

The heavy defense of Scutarii Cavalry is definitely worth the extra 18 denarii. It's 21 against melee and 22 against missiles head-on - believe me you would need it against Hetairoi and cataphracts (though you also need boat to transfer them )

For light cavalry to pursue enemies, nothing beats Punic Cavalry for the job.

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BTW, if you have noticed, Carthaginian units tend to wear little armour, making them quiet vulnerable to javelines. And the AOR units just stink, a few experiences cannot help anyway - my Carthaginian campaign is the only campaign I found myself have to use a lot more troops than the enemy, and the casuality is always very high and the army needs constant replenishment.
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HOW TO ROLL BLUNTS

[junno14]

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my Carthaginian campaign is the only campaign I found myself have to use a lot more troops than the enemy, and the casuality is always very high and the army needs constant replenishment.

I dont really agree with you on that one. I have played with both the germans and the guals, and when they face the mighty romans they are just slashed away by those missle from the hastati and principes..

I really hate it that i can't get a herioc victory becuase I always lose 150+ men only becuase of that..

[Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus]

Heh, actually it's the opposite:

Sacred Band Cavalry: attack 8, charge 26, defense 8/7/0 (armour/skill/shield), heavy horse, very good stamina

Scutarii Cavalry: attack 8, charge 26, defense 12/4/5, heavy horse, good stamina

No, that's exactly what he said. He mentioned the stamina and defense skill being better. very good vs good and 7 vs 4. Or maybe I have my screen upside down. That would exxplain why I keep on losing

[Mikail Mengsk]

Just a tip: Due not keep Sacred Band infantry on guard mode. I like to usually keep them on the flakes. They'll destroy or hold their own against mostly anything that comes their way, and are excellent for flaking the enemy.

I would also actually recommend Sacred Band Cavalry over the Scutarii cavalry. They are faster, have better stamina, better to chase routers, and have the "frighten" infantry attribute. Their defense skill is also higher, making them better against other cavalry.

Actually, I had replaced the Sacred Bands on the centre with the Punic Citizen Infatry, much better for stopping the enemy. I didn't train any Sacred Bands, but (as you could read in my AAR -please read it! -) the only two i still have, i started to use them on the more powerful flank, like assault troops. I found they are more affective as attackers, as you said.

About the Scutarii, i agree with adq.

About the Carthaginian's low defense yopu are right, when i will face a lot of missle troops i think it will be bad for my armies. But as you said, the Punic Cavalry is the best against them . By the qay, why do you think carthaginian's AOR are bad? Which AOR unit do you intend? :hmmm:

[AqD]

I mean that because Carthaginian cannot train its own units except for punic cav outside of north africa, you're forced to use AOR units in army - unless you want to transfer everything by the sea...

AOR units have low morale, and are untrained and undisciplined - in short, they all suck, suck badly, and it's one of reaons why most AI armies can be crushed easily.

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I dont really agree with you on that one. I have played with both the germans and the guals, and when they face the mighty romans they are just slashed away by those missle from the hastati and principes..

I really hate it that i can't get a herioc victory becuase I always lose 150+ men only becuase of that..

Heh, you're aware that most of gaul and german units are completely unarmoured? I don't play them for this reason
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properties Pattaya

[Mikail Mengsk]

I mean that because Carthaginian cannot train its own units except for punic cav outside of north africa, you're forced to use AOR units in army - unless you want to transfer everything by the sea...

AOR units have low morale, and are untrained and undisciplined - in short, they all suck, suck badly, and it's one of reaons why most AI armies can be crushed easily.

SUre, you're right, but fighting with cheap units and a few elite, producing other troops in motherland and send them helping of the AORs with your mighty navy it's the way to be a REAL Carthaginian!

I simply LOVE this! It's all a lot complicated with Carthage, but when you finally found the best strategy, you will reach your Nirvana

[junno14]

I mean that because Carthaginian cannot train its own units except for punic cav outside of north africa, you're forced to use AOR units in army - unless you want to transfer everything by the sea...

AOR units have low morale, and are untrained and undisciplined - in short, they all suck, suck badly, and it's one of reaons why most AI armies can be crushed easily.

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Heh, you're aware that most of gaul and german units are completely unarmoured? I don't play them for this reason

yeah I know that the barbarians wear no bodyarmour, but i'll like a challenge.

i'm playing it on Hard/Hard now and only have problems with the romans.. damn thay are hard to kill