Populationlimit dependent Recruitment

[repman]

Recruitment pool restriction by Tsarsies for the player
- based on numbers of unit class\category units: unitlimit
- number of settlements + levels (as a replacement for population levels): factionsize
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152086

As you upgrade, conquer new settlements, lose settlements, give settlements away etc your factionsize will grow or diminish.
To count units, i used the TrainedUnitCategory and TrainedUnitClass as the deciding factors, and gave each type a point based on the likely hood of that type being trained.
Training\disbanding units will add or subtract points to the unitlimit
If unitlimit > faction size then recruitment freeze...

You can fill up the actual factionsize with troops as you like, as you have done it before. You choose elite units (discount 2 points) or simple units (discount 1)

factionsize
Settlement Sizes
max pop - settlement type - scale
1500 village (no Walls) 5
5000 wooden_pallisade 10
12000 wooden_wall 15
25000 stone_wall 20
60000 large_stone_wall 25
120000 huge_stone_wall 30

1500 motte_and_bailey 10
5000 wooden_castle 20
12000 castle 30
25000 fortress 40
50000 citadel 50

as you can see, castle settlements have the ability to train more units (being castles). As you upgrade, conquer new settlements, lose settlements, give settlements away etc your faction size will grow or diminish as is the case.
--> so the actual factionsize is calculated from the number of your settlements and their upgrade level)

UNIT LIMIT VALUES
CATEGORY
infantry 0
cavalry 1
siege 0
ship 1

CLASS
light 1
heavy 2
missile 1
spearmen 1

so a light missile unit would cost 1 unit points, a heavy cavalry would cost you 3, a light infantry would cost you 1, horse archers cost 2 (unless heavily armored).

Attached is a DLV Version for hotfix_02: needs new campaign start
unzip and put the campaign file into the imperial campaign folder and the historic event file into the text folder. Dlete the bin files. Make copies of your originals.
Every turn there will be two popups showing you the actual factionsize and your rounded unitindex (e.g.: actual 28 will be rounded up to 30):
If the shown unitindex > factionsize your recruitement will freeze
--> you have to disband units, or upgrade your settlement or conquer a new settlement or start weeping..
Version2 changes:
- fixed no change-bug if you loose a settlement
- refreshrate is now factionsize dependent:
\nFactionsize < 100 --> -1
\nFactionsize > 100 --> plus -1
\nFactionsize > 200 --> plus -1
\nFactionsize > 400 --> plus -1
\nFactionsize > 800 --> plus -1
- War Draft:
You have decided to attack an enemy (except the slaves) or an enemy (except the slaves) has decided to attack yourself. Your
Warminister asks you if you want to enforce a type of draft ! Send the recruiters into the houses and get anybody who is capable to fight. The
recruiters are greedy and will cost you extra money. Your population hates you now and Loyality is going down.
Depending on Factionsize the costs and number of units will be:
Factionsize < 100 --> -10 Unitindex will cost 3000 Florin !
Factionsize > 100 --> additional -10 Unitindex will cost 3000 Florin !
Factionsize > 200 --> additional -10 Unitindex will cost 3000 Florin !
Factionsize > 400 --> additional -10 Unitindex will cost 3000 Florin !
Factionsize > 800 --> additional -10 Unitindex will cost 3000 Florin !

repman

[Pelican Man]

WELL,

DID ANYBODY TRY IT YET!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?

THE P-MAN

[Marku]

perhaps its hardcoded? but can the recruitment system be more like RTW? as many of X unit as you like as long as you have sufficient population.

[repman]

Only me and Tsarsies...lol
No i have just finished adapting the script and its working fine..., i just want to propose the idea:
- a factionspecificwide recruitmentpool dependent on number and level of settlements (using directly population as in RTW is not easily possible ..9
- units are added or subtracted in relevance to class and category

If the pool is exhausted over time you are dead meat....you haveto use mercenaries or to upgrade or to occupy a new settlement or to...
Some ideas for the factionwide recruitement pool: (already realized in next DLV...lol)
- if you have exhausted your limit you are dead meat. To make it more realistically, how about a time dependent decreasing unitlimit (= refresh rate)? People are immigrating in your country, people are born etc,....
so every turn: inc_counter unitlimit -1
(lowest limit is 0)
- forced recruitement (Volkssturm)..the last stand: young men, children, woman, the old: seldom dynamical event (accept ,decline) to reduce unitlimit by 10...will cost a lot of money and create turmoil and unloyal traits

repman

[Xtiaan72]

How does the AI deal with this? That's the big question. If they are limited by population I don't think the AI will handle it well. If the AI doesn't have to worry about it and can recruit willy, nilly...It seems to me that the player will be dead meat sooner or later no matter what.

[Tsarsies]

The AI is unaffected by the script entirely. the script places limits on the player only. the limit i have set each settlement too is still reasonably high. so the player will still be able to field large armies. i originally wrote the script to make the game alot more challenging. and when i have completly finished it then the game will be more stratigical and tactically more challenging.

[Xtiaan72]

The AI is unaffected by the script entirely. the script places limits on the player only. the limit i have set each settlement too is still reasonably high. so the player will still be able to field large armies. i originally wrote the script to make the game alot more challenging. and when i have completly finished it then the game will be more stratigical and tactically more challenging.

Well I guess it's going in the right mod then! I have to say, this mod is getting extremely difficult... Not that I'm complaining!

If I have a real complaint it's that updates and improvements come so fast that I don't have a chance to finish a campaign! I consider DLV my hobby but I rarely have a chance to play more than 40 turns a week. I know that's not much of a complaint but for DLV fanatics it's hard to play with an old version when a new one comes out. So if I don't quit my day job, I will never see the year 1300.

I guess that's alright... I suppose the first 40 turns when you are struggling to stay alive are the most fun for me. C'est la Vie!

[Marku]

ive never reached 1300 due to the updates.lol.

[Miraj]

This is a brilliant concept. Is it already in the current version of DLV or is it for future versions?

[Omar Nelson B.]

Not in the current 5.4 but you are right in saying that it is a great concept and I'm assuming that it will be put into future versions if all goes well. I'm waiting till I finish my current campaign and then I will try it.

Question:
Are more elite units and faction specific units more limited with this add on?

[Valantine]

Sounds interesting, I'd like to see how this would effect the DLV experience
V

[repman]

the script is ready done for DLV, i only need to include events which the player are warning if he is running out of people...or the actual factionsize and the unitindex

repman

[Marku]

as omar said. does this mean we'll have more elite units now?

[Omar Nelson B.]

as omar said. does this mean we'll have more elite units now?

Haha I was thinking that we would have less. Not as many = multi front war is going to be a lot more difficult.

My line of thinking is Basic spear, sword and bow units there would be a lot more of.
"Militia" or "Non Elite" units are
1. easier to train
2. quicker to train and get to the battle

The elite units for the most part would rely on professional soldiers who would have trained there whole lives. Not too many average folk would want to devote their lives to warfare. So there would be less "elite" troops but the quality would be better. I know that this does not apply to all but I see no need to nit-pick. On the note of there being less "elite" units. I think that there should be some sort of a valor or morale boost for these troops due to there limited availability.

Just some brain storms

[Marku]

byzantine sucks without their advanced/elite units. its annoying we dont ger varangian guard earlier on because they're just mercs

[repman]

You can fill up the actual factionsize with troops as you like, as you have done it before. You choose elite units (discount 2 points) or simple units (discount 1)

factionsize
Settlement Sizes
max pop - settlement type - scale
1500 village (no Walls) 5
5000 wooden_pallisade 10
12000 wooden_wall 15
25000 stone_wall 20
60000 large_stone_wall 25
120000 huge_stone_wall 30

1500 motte_and_bailey 10
5000 wooden_castle 20
12000 castle 30
25000 fortress 40
50000 citadel 50

as you can see, castle settlements have the ability to train more units (being castles). As you upgrade, conquer new settlements, lose settlements, give settlements away etc your faction size will grow or diminish as is the case.
--> so the actual factionsize is calculated from the number of your settlements and their upgrade level)

UNIT LIMIT VALUES
CATEGORY
infantry 0
cavalry 1
siege 0
ship 1

CLASS
light 1
heavy 2
missile 1
spearmen 1

so a light missile unit would cost 1 unit points, a heavy cavalry would cost you 3, a light infantry would cost you 1, horse archers cost 2 (unless heavily armored).

every round will be two popups showing you the actual factionsize and your rounded unitlimit (e.g.: actual 28 will be rounded up to 30):
If shown unitlimit > factionsize recruitement freeze
--> you have to disband units, or upgrade your settlement or conquer a new settlement or start weeping..

repman

[ivanhoex]

hello

i want to add my classic constructive critic here, if i may.



first, if i dont misunderstood, a bigger unitlimit = soon you wont be able to keep recruiting

so if every year unitlimit =- 1, then you can have a extra unit for your army always. thats good the first turns, but then later turns tends to be more like a little too much code for nothing.

i mean, lest say i have 5 cities, then i can have mmm 10 for each city + 2 big armies + 1 small = 80 troops... then every turn my unit limit would be 79 (but i still have my 80 troops built, so i build the 81st. next turn, calculation of limit adds all my troops, less one, then 80=80 and i cannot build anymore.

then i attack lose some troops, build up to 81, recruiting stops.


so... whats the difference between 80 and 81?

i like the idea of forced recruitmen.


i like this idea a lot in general, but then still are some things that are not quite right.


AI should be limited by this as well. they have infinite money so they will have their limit full all the time, but it would be more likely to have a decent army. lets say if they have 60 / 80 and then they CANT build ballistaes... it would be great. this plus the actual system should be enough.

then again, we will have HARD HARD HARD time resuplying our front lines.

thats because as game develops, we have more territory, sometimes overseas, that means quite a travel that means NON-instant recruiting.
that means your armies would have to stop every time they suffer a casualty and wait. once they are waiting, they are chargin you for existance.
once they are waiting, they are sitting ducks for the enemy to advance on you. that also means casualtys.

with new AI, one enemy advancing and sieging you tends to start a chain of attacks of all your neighbours, smartly guessing you cannot cope with all at the time in your current situation.

that leads to desperate recruitment, push you to red numbers, then leads to cheating battles out. then you get the you lose sign and wonder if you would ever want to play the game again...

thats why i think AI has to have this limitation too. if they hardly can defend their own borders, they will hesitate on attacking you out of the box. maybe instead of 5 instant wars you get only 2. maybe your other neighbours send their troops to the ones attacking you. more interesting stuff will happen.




the land travel can also be solved. as not only the level and number of cities should matter, but how much territory do they control. if you play a rus faction for example, you might find that you cannot expand unless you keep conquering big developed castles and change their religion.

conquering castles means also a strain on resources and forces strategy too much.



if you play as england, you may have too much soldiery contrasted with france for example. its a known fact that strenght of numbers have always favoured france (as well as the number of knights fielded) when france owned more territory (not meaning the most important / game fielded cities but the amount of land they controlled)


therefore, maybe a way to figure this out would be to attach a hidden resource not on the cities themselves, but on the crowns they give. then the crown of a large province adds -20 to factionunitlimit but a small one gives -7. maybe if its also the capital then it adds -10 (and -25 the large capital).





-edit-

as i read in your last posting (was writing this when you publicated it)
take in account this for helping with numbers:
-resuplying troops to the front (see my related fix to this situation)
-havin 1 army to deffend 3 settlements at a time
-having 1 army on the front for each 2 settlements you already have
-field 10 defending units on normal cities, 20 in two of them if under heavy attack, lets say around 13 units for province.

so if you have 6 very small settlements (no resuply) you should have:
20*(6/3)+20*(6/2)+13*6 = 178 factionSize

with your numbers, i have to own 1 citadel and 5 large walls to have that much units.
that means until reaching far developed game, we wont have enough troops to sustain ourselves against the unlimited AI.

did you notice how often DLV players reach developed games with 5 large walls + a citadel? its rare at least.


i have to add: that i didnt accounted for how many horses and knights you have in your army. then your numbers should be like doubled at least.





PD: hope this feedback is helpful.

[repman]

@ivanhoex
thanks for the detailed feedback !
Your calculations are quite correct. Parameters can be adjusted.
If your soldiers get killed in battle or anything else the unitlimit is not reduced. You can't use dead soldiers..only disbanding units reduce the unitlimit to bring it back under the factionsize parameter (settlement dependent).
Without the refresh factor -1 you can't recruit anybody up to eternity if you don't upgrade your setlements.

Ideas: crowns reducing the unitlimit, negativ farming events elevating the unitlimit, forced recruitement in times of war reducing the unitlimit,, ...there are many possibilities

in DLV we have now the following parameters for the strategic military calculation:
- fieldcosts
- supply
- population
- military rank
i think thats enough....

repman

[ivanhoex]

another idea, not editing coz its too large and may be unnoticed:

(after understanding what you actually meant with the -1/turn)


if you have a big city it should substract X per turn out of unitlimit factor.

at least if city = bigger than X


im beggining to doubt about even starting a 5.4 campaing... this feature is a must really. i ll probably wait till 5.5 XD



be aware that this feature will also mean a huge hit on economy. fortunately after conquering cracow that wont matter but in the early days it might be harder than usual.

[Xtiaan72]

Am I understanding correctly that training units will effect the unit cap? So even if you are just upgrading armor or replacing a few casualties it counts as one against the cap?