A few misc observations - RS

[Coldcall]

Great mod, I cannot stay away from it. Named legions makes all the difference. However some observations:

Syracuse - They feel very weak compared to the Greeks, Macedonians and Gauls, who i spend most of my time fighting.

Ptolemies - They are really weak too. Compared to the Macedonian Royal Hoplites/Pike Egytian hoplites are very soft.

Greeks - The Spartans are weak also which surprised me. And they rout quite easily against any named legion, even one without any experience/veterans.

Germanic Tribes - They seem to expand very slowly in each of my campaigns which is sad because I'd like to feel they are more of a threat.

Is it not possible to raise the Stats of the non Roman factions? That might increase the challenge even if AI has problems. I play on H/VH which is supposeldy the hardest and frankly i find it a breeze. I love this mod just wish my named legions felt like they had met some strong opposition.

[Astaroth]

I love this mod as well, and despite not expanding much so far (I do this intentionally to make it harder, playing on h/h here, I took only the whole italian peninsula to the alps+sardinia+corsica so far, no named legions yet), my treasury is like exploding.
Sure, buildings are more expensive. But by doing a very simply build order (always build a building in every single of my cities if i have the money for it, every turn: farming/streets/ports/market first, then shrine/temple to mercury, then gradually build better and better farms/road/trading stuff. once youve maxed out all eco buildings, you build better and better military buildings till your city is big enough to be expanded and thus give you more upgrade possibilities) my treasury is about to explode. Not that many years in I already make 40-50k a turn, altho my armies arent exactly small.

I could field around 15-20 full stacks+garrison troops and I'd prolly still not lose any money. I now have ~250,000 denarii and its getting more and more

any idea why this happens? altho battles are pretty hard/nice, they dont matter as much. Even if I lose 2 stacks one turn, no big deal. Just raise 6 new stacks in surrounding cities in the next turn, does hardly effect my treasure

[Worm]

From the Rs 1.5 release thread:
"RS1.5 introduces a new feature that dvk has come up with to increase the game's difficulty, and to better recreate historical faction expansion. In many mods, you may have a hard time in the beginning, but you reach a point where you become so powerful that no other factions can stand up to you. You reach a ‘tipping point’... where you know you're going to win because you've got so much money and so many armies that nothing can stop you.

RS1.5 reduces the impact of this ‘tipping point’ by putting emphasis on your economy in your own 'home' territories. This restrains you, because your finances are based in the areas where you started. But it also gives you an advantage for the same reason. As an AI faction expands, it loses money... or more correctly must spend a lot to maintain the expansion. It has a ton of armies because it can support them....but not a lot of money because it's trying to maintain its empire. Now you come along and attack this faction. You take its territories away. You relieve it of its expensive armies. You pound it back towards it's 'homeland’. In the typical RTW mod, what happens is that you handcuff the AI faction because you are taking huge chucks out of its economy. But in RS, as you pound an AI faction back towards it's home, you are actually INCREASING it's income. Army maintenance drops. Costly and often unproductive regions are removed from it. You are actually making them stronger economically. So it gives them a better chance, and delays the ‘tipping point’, because if you're not careful, that faction can recover and come at you again!

So, the further you get from home...the less money you make. This represents the cost of sending armies to distant places, and the costs of controlling a vast area of people who are going to want something from you in return for their cooperation. So for example, if Armenia conquers a region in Gaul, they suffer an instant 35% penalty in the form of lost taxable income. 45% in Britain. The penalties expand according to the distance from where you start. So while it may seems as if you have a ton of money in the beginning of the campaign... wait until you start trying to conquer areas that are far away from your homeland".

That explains why you are so rich sunl1ght

[Gotthard]

Syracuse: They are supposed to be weak... more of a 'challenge' faction for the player than significant opposition when playing against them.

Ptolomies: I'm a bit confused... they have a really good unit lineup, one of the best in the game, bar carthage. Their best phalanx (Baskilon Agema) is the equivalent to the silver shield, if not the royal pikeman. Their cavalry is above average to excellent, and their archers are a bit better as well.

Greeks: I have no idea what you're talking about here, my spartans destroy everyone utterly. If you are playing rome against the spartans, the computer 'kingdom spartan hoplites' are much reduced in strength, mostly so a faction can take over the initially rebel controlled city.

Germanic Tribes: They expand slowly by design, if you're playing rome don't make any significant moves for 15-20 years or so and it will be a LOT different. In 520 I lost Geneva to a swarm of 4.5 german stacks. Trust me, they'll become a threat.

In general, I'd reccomend playing the game a bit longer, I had some initial concerns like you (with money, etc.) but I"m in 535, make 120K *profit* a turn, and am desperate for more money as I can barely keep cities making buildings and still have money to replace the 5k+ troops I lose a turn.

[Ephialtes The Dog]

Coldcall, as for the spartan, if you want them to be stronger just give them 2 hp.

[Gotthard]

That would make them... more than unstoppable. Last battle with my spartans I killed 3900+ enemies (armored hoplites, sword hoplites, etc. not pushover units) versus 480ish kills on my side. (Large unit scale, default 122 men per spartan hoplite unit)

He said they rout easily as well, I've never, EVER seen my spartans break, and it's extremely rare for the kingdom spartan hoplite to break as well, I think their morale is only a few points lower. My experience has been the opposite, the named legions get utterly crushed by spartan hoplites, and the more advanced sword units of the barbarians (Cimmerians, for example).

[century x]

I don't know man. I always ALWAYS have problems with those germanic tribes. And they are a very real threat. They can easily destroy any legion if your not careful.

In my campaigns they expand quickly.

[HMonk]

Everything is as it should be, The RS team has done an out standing job with game play in all areas. wait till you see v2.0...WOW you will love it. of this I'm sure.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Spartans are overrated. I take great pleasure is slaughtering them all. I disband them if I'm Greek. Death to all Spartans!

(Except RS2 ones)

[century x]

Spartans are overrated. I take great pleasure is slaughtering them all. I disband them if I'm Greek. Death to all Spartans!

(Except RS2 ones)

Thank you FUZZ. I HATEEEEEE the spartans. I to take great pleasure in destryoing that city and its armies.

[Ephialtes The Dog]

Heresy I say, Heresy! No but I do take pleasure in killing them after I give them 2 HP.

[Nordmann]

To be honest, I really sick of hearing about damned Spartans, it seems to me that ever since "300" more than a few people have become unhealthily obsessed with them. While Spartans are known to have been exceptional soldiers, for the time, they most certainly weren't invincible; in RS they are overpowered to the extreme.

[Lost In Transition]

To be honest, I really sick of hearing about damned Spartans, it seems to me that ever since "300" more than a few people have become unhealthily obsessed with them. While Spartans are known to have been exceptional soldiers, for the time, they most certainly weren't invincible; in RS they are overpowered to the extreme.

I've playd a lot of RS and I haven't found Spartans to be too overpowered. But that's just my opinion.

Nor would I blame the world's fascination with Sparta on a silly movie like 300. The stand the Spartans made at the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the inspirational, heroic stories of world history. I also believe the Greek historian Herodotus did as much, if not more, than the movie 300 to create the myth of Spartan invincibility.

On the other hand, a lot of what you hear people quoting about Spartans is a myth. Many people know that 300 Spartans held at Thermopylae, but you seldom hear them comment about how ten to eleven thousand Spartan hoplites lost to six to seven thousand Thebian hoplites at the Battle of Leuctra. Why don't we celebrate Thebians, then?

That said, what would this game be without Spartans? And it's a game and I look foward to fighting the Spartans . . . with a full legion, of course . . .

[Ephialtes The Dog]

I agree but I have known and and liked the Spartans a long time before 300 or Halo.

[dvk901]

I've personally seen in excess of 500,000 denarii in the treasury quicly disappear as soon as Rome left Italy, and the income drop significantly as they, or any faction expands. Part of the reason for this is just how the RTW AI works........the AI doesn't NEED to build all the buildings you have to to keep cities happy. So you take over a region and immediately have to spend a ton just to get it under control, with larger garrisons....unless you 'relocate' the population, which helps, but in only a few turns the same settlement will be screaming for better stuff.

So if you are still in your homelands, building up your economy and not expanding, it's true, you'll have a lot of money. But watch it disappear as you expand. For the most part, I enjoy having 'enough' money to do what has to be done, and try to configure RS that way. I don't enjoy mods where you constantly struggle for a buck or two in order to buy some lousy unit that's essentially worthless anyway, or where you can't even afford to build any of the neat building that are in it!

As for the Germans, or any faction, really, in most mods...patience is a virtue. If you roar out of your homelands and attack everything in sight as fast as you can...well, you simply reduce the challenge of the game. That's all there is too it. This is not a 'one faction mod'...so all factions start with some difficulties. They are surrounded by slave armies and regions. They are next to Free People regions. They have to build up their military and economy just like you do. If I made it so that all factions were UBER-POWERFUL in the beginning just because you like to play Rome, then the person who wanted to play the Germans or Macedon would say: "Well, this is too easy." And they'd be right. So all factions start with problems.

I find that in 20-30 years, the Germans...in every campaign I've played, and every test I've ever run with this mod, are going to make you PAY!. Given time to get their act together, they, or Gaul, or Macedon, or anyone can be a real pain. You just have to be a little patient.

[century x]

I agree with all of you. Ever since that 300 movie came out. Everyone thinks there experts on the Spartans. Or experts on the battle of Thermopylae. I've known about the spartans since I picked up my first history book about ancient greeks when I was in 5th grade. I love it when I catch someone in school talking about the spartans and the only thing they know comes from that movie. SAD SAD very sad it is.

[Nordmann]

That was my point exactly, I've even seen certain individuals comment on the Sparta preview thread, stating that the units don't look accurate...and what might they be basing this judgement on? Yes, you guessed it...that wonderfully inaccurate movie "300". Perhaps it would be more aptly named "300 Historical Inaccuracies".

[Brusilov]

I agree with all of you. Ever since that 300 movie came out. Everyone thinks there experts on the Spartans. Or experts on the battle of Thermopylae. I've known about the spartans since I picked up my first history book about ancient greeks when I was in 5th grade. I love it when I catch someone in school talking about the spartans and the only thing they know comes from that movie. SAD SAD very sad it is.

I look at it as a way of getting people interested in something which can't be a bad thing no matter how badly they are informed - they can always improve, if they are interested or guided. I don't believe what I see in movies because it's just a story made for entertainment, maybe even loosely based on historical fact, but I don't see that as factual. Factual is called a documentary.

Quite often if it's something new that I've not heard of before I will go away and try and find out about that subject. It's a lot easier now-a-days with the 'net, it used to be more expensive buying books - or cheaper if I loaned them from a library.

I know there are many people out there that believe everything they see in a movie. But all we can do is to try and educate them without appearing to be an arse about it.

The story I like to tell is about the movie 'The Sound Barrier'. It was a British movie about an ex WWII fighter pilot that found while diving his Hurricane / Spitfire he found the only way to get the plane to pull out of the dive was the 'reverse' the control (stick) settings. That pilot eventually broke the sound barrier in the movie by doing similar in a jet.

Now for me the amusing story is that the man who was the first to break the sound barrier, Chuck Yeager, was asked if he controlled the X-1 by reversing the controls.

Edited: dvk beat me to it.....

I can recommend to anyone a good documentary on Spartans. It's 'The Spartans' presented by Bettany Hughes - I know at one stage it was on Channel 4 in the UK.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416424/

The following is a similar link to the movie 'The Sound Barrier' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044446/

[icydawgfish]

But the seleucids are a bigger pain. I think they should have a strong base of operations in the fertile crescen, but their eastern and Anatolian provinces should be less developed. I believe this would reduce the problem of Seleucids owning the east. Egypts coreprovinces should be upgraded with better military infrastructure and Parthia should be boosted just a bit. THose are my two cents.

[Ephialtes The Dog]

I agree with you gentlemen a 100%.