Unit Limitations

[Tsarsies]

LATEST UPDATE 3\27

Thankyou for downloading and trying the Recruitment Limitations Mod.

If you have any questions or suggestions please direct your thoughts to http://www.twmodsquad.com/index.php

This Mod has been set up for use with Stainless Steel. I have Got Accept\Decline Events working in SS so all events will fire properly.

At the Start of the game you will recieve a modified version of the following information in a message, it will also be available to you during the game via your military list scroll's help icon. (The ? in the top right of the scroll).

Every faction has initial settings based on its current standings in the medieval world. All the information was gathered from the descr_strat file. Smaller factions like Ireland, Lithuania, Knights Templar etc may have difficulty expanding early on.

Your Factions population can only support so many units. Once that limit has been reached you cant recruit anymore until your faction grows, expands etc.
As you expand and upgrade, your factions population grows. based on the number of settlements you own and the number of upgrades per settlement your unit limitation is set. as you train and recruit new units your unit limit gets smaller and smaller until it is reached. Once you recruit enough units to put you over the threshhold of your factions size you are unable to recruit more units until you upgrade a settlement (or capture one), thus forcing the player to think about expansion sooner and more often.

Players will be Forced to think before recruiting random units. Recruiting just to keep order may not be wise anymore. Suicidal Tactics become null and void. if you sacrifice units in battle (or even lose when auto battle) then you are just wasting your population, you cant recruit dead people!. So you cant waste your population on suicidal tactics. You can't rely on 'cannon-fodder'. Each unit becomes more valuable to you. Peasants may be worthless in battle, but they can become precious with this script. Mercenary Units will become extremly important and more valuable as they dont count towards your factions unit limit.

The loss of a settlement is now a huge deal. Not only do you lose the income from that city and any other benefits, but now your unit limit gets even smaller, making the challenge to take it back a little harder. and in some cases, very hard. The game is alot more challenging. You must balance your income and plan your strategies around your populations limit.

Below are the Faction Size Settings.
Each Settlement upgrade is based on the max population output for that upgrade.

SETTLEMENT SIZES
max pop - settlement type - Unit Limitations Point Scale
1500 village (no Walls) 5
5000 wooden_pallisade 10
12000 wooden_wall 15
25000 stone_wall 20
60000 large_stone_wall 25
120000 huge_stone_wall 30

1500 motte_and_bailey 10
5000 wooden_castle 20
12000 castle 30
25000 fortress 40
50000 citadel 50

So if you have 2 small towns and 3 castles. Your factions size would be 110

Below are the Unit Values.
Each unit trained has a value assigned to it depending on its Class and Category. This system does not take into count Elite versus Peasant. For that you would need to also use Point Blanks RR\RC and Bygs Supply and Command. Both i Highly Recommend in use with this mod

UNIT VALUES
CATEGORY
infantry 0
cavalry 1
siege 1
ship 1

CLASS
light 1
heavy 2
missile 2
spearmen 1

So a Spearmen would cost 1 point, Light Infantry 1, Missile Cavalry 3, Light Cavalry 2, Heavy Cavalry 3. ALL Siege and Naval units cost 1 point.

Mercenary units are not factored in and are therefore free in regards to your Factions Unit Limit.
Mission Rewards are not included. So if you are granted units for completing a mission they will not effect your Unit Limit. This makes missions more rewarding, and mercenaries more valuable.

Migration, Draft, Crusade\Jihad settings have been added in this version.

Migration has been factored in. There is a chance every so often that people will migrate to your kingdom, if they do then expect to see small increases in random settlements population levels. These events will also increase your factions unit limitations. People are more likely to migrate if your kingdom is large.

The Draft. You can draft your population once every turn, this will increase your factions size by 15 points for a period of 10 turns when it will return to normal. You can draft your population as often as you like but there may be dire consequences if you draft too often. You can only enact the draft once per turn but can have multiple drafts enacted. It is possible to have single settlements shut down recruitment options for the duration of one turn just because you over drafted your population (this can cause issues if it is your primary recruitment settlement). Settlements may also experience unrest whilst being drafted, this effect is not so severe, it decreases per turn and your settlement will only revolt if you already have unhappy citizens. This option is available to you through your 'Settlements List View Scroll - Help Icon' (The ? in the top right of scroll)

Crusade\Jihad Settings. Your Factions size will increase by 20 when you join a crusade. People are more likely to fight for somthing they believe in.

Your Max Unit Limit IS your Faction Size.

This does NOT in any way have an effect on the AI, therefore the AI is not limited in what it can recruit. this makes for a much more challenging experience.

There are 2 versions, Epic and Regular. Regular is just the Unit Limitations mod itself. Epic is set up for a 2 turn per year game, assuming you also have Echads fix, RR\RC and Byg's Supply and Command. I have modified some files to boot. Epic is Very Challenging on VH\VH.

HOW TO INSTALL
If you are Using the Epic Version. Simply copy paste all files into there corresponding directories, overwrite if asked.
Otherwise...
Campaign Script
Make a backup of any file you overwrite.
open your campaign_script.txt file. (found in your SS data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign folder.)
Open the attached recruitment limitations.txt file and right click - select all - copy
scroll down to the bottom of your campaign_script.txt, and above the 'wait_monitors', paste the copy of unit limitations.
close the file, save on exit.

Event Messages.
open your historic_events.txt file. (found in your SS data\text folder)
open the attached historic_events.txt file, right click - copy all.
scroll to the very bottom of you SS historic_events.txt file, be sure you are at the bottom on a FRESH line. then right click and paste the copy of historic events. (This adds the messages for in game related to Recruitment Limitations)
Close the file, save on exit.
Place the descr_event_images.txt in your data folder

Start a New Campaign, and enjoy

Plans for future Releases - Possibly.
1. Intergrate wealth\trade\taxation levels into settlements loyalty\content status. (Its already too easy to set taxes to very high with no penalty, just move another unit in). I want to put a system in place that rewards the player for lowering taxes and keeping citzens happy. happy folk are more likely to trust there king and follow under his rule.
2. Scrutage. A form of tax paid by a noble to 'buy' his way out of war duties. Would increase happiness and income but ower unit limit.
3. I have a few other ideas but seem to have misplaced them

Thankyou for your interest in this mod!

[knoess]

sounds good i will certainly try it.
Quick question however will the ai have the same limits ? And if so will it not even be worse for the ai since humans know better what and when to recruit and the ai doesnt ?

[Tsarsies]

no it doesnt effect the AI at all.

[AnthoniusII]

Let me see you mean for examble that i could reqruit 1 knight uni per castle?or something like that?:hmmm:

[Point Blank]

Looks interesting. You might want to take a look at BGR III, I think that has a similar scheme.

[Soulsick]

reminds me RTW where cities with the highest population had to pay the wages of their armies.very challenging.

[MORBIDYAM]

It sounds interesting, but is the ai also unable to build more units, because the ai is already pathetic as it if you cut their numbers, (considering a human player can generally beat 3 full armies, in sucession, with 1 full army, wouldn't this make it easier to conquer other factions then steamroll over the whole map?

[Chim]

It sounds interesting, but is the ai also unable to build more units, because the ai is already pathetic as it if you cut their numbers, (considering a human player can generally beat 3 full armies, in sucession, with 1 full army, wouldn't this make it easier to conquer other factions then steamroll over the whole map?

One word: Read:

no it doesnt effect the AI at all.

[MORBIDYAM]

One word: Read:

Figures I would somehow overlook the 1 post that has my answer...

[Scalylizard]

Tsarsies-This is the script I have been waiting for!! Great idea!!!! +rep
I'll try it as soon as I get home. To give me a feeling of the system, can you elaborate a little on the mechanics?
For example,
1-How many units can we recruit per village/town/city?
2- Is the settlement level more important than the actual population number in determining the recruitment limits?
3-Does the population change as you recruit and disband?

Thanks


EDIT: I downloaded and took a look at the script- I am definitely not a modder but I think I got the basic idea. Each military unit has a value (1 for inf. 2 for heavy inf , 3 for heavy cav. etc) and each settlement upgrade increases the total value of our limit by 5. Furthermore each faction has a predetermined starting size. For example England's pool is worth 75 points , and the number of units is 29. That can be either 75 regular infantry (1p each) or any combination of the units as long as unit the value doesn't exceed 75 and the total number of units don't exceed 29. As soon as the English level up their settlements they get +5 to the pool for each upgrade in a single settlement and if they conquer new settlements the limit will increase in accordance with the new settlement;s level. Lose the settlement and the limit falls down resulting in a recruitment freeze.
Pretty good idea! Did I get it right?

[Tsarsies]

@ Point Blank
I actually use BGR III with this script. his script sets avaialability of units to certain generals. my script limits recruitment based on your population level. so if both are used together you get a situation where your generals in the war council (bgr III) are recruiting knights etc, but wont be able to if the population has been exhausted due to previous recruitment (my script). my script takes nothing away from any other script, just adds another element. In my opinion BGR III is a GREAT script and i use it in any mod i play.

@ Scalylizard
Okay the basic mechanics of the script are,

i devised a scale from 5-50 to represent population levels. i couldnt think of a way to represent the actual population, so i used each settlement upgrade's 'max population' as the standard. so as your population slowly grows (from 3200-3254) nothing is effected, only when you upgrade or ur population maxes out. take this little chart.

Settlement Sizes
max pop - settlement type - scale
1500 village (no Walls) 5
5000 wooden_pallisade 10
12000 wooden_wall 15
25000 stone_wall 20
60000 large_stone_wall 25
120000 huge_stone_wall 30

1500 motte_and_bailey 10
5000 wooden_castle 20
12000 castle 30
25000 fortress 40
50000 citadel 50

as you can see, castle settlements have the ability to train more units (being castles). As you upgrade, conquer new settlements, lose settlements, give settlements away etc your faction size will grow or diminish as is the case.
to count units, i used the TrainedUnitCategory and TrainedUnitClass as the deciding factors. and gave each type a point based on the likley hood of that type being trained. so army compositions would likely have more infantry then heavy cavalry and so on.

UNIT LIMIT VALUES
CATEGORY
infantry 0
cavalry 1
siege 0
ship 1

CLASS
light 1
heavy 2
missile 1
spearmen 1

so a light missile unit would cost 1 unit points, a heavy cavalry would cost you 4, a light infantry would cost you 1, horse archers cost 2 (unless heavily armored).

with this system mercenaries are not included, and thus are free in regards to unit points, and guild rewards, pope rewards (where you recieve the best units avaialable) are also free. seeing as they are a gift.

so to answer your questions,
1. 5 points per city upgrade, 10 per castle.
2. The settlement level is more important then actual population, i couldnt figure out how to track population as easily as upgrades.
3. the population doesnt change as you recruit, disband, lose units. only the scale values i have assigned increase decrease.

i think i have covered the basics of it there. if you have any questions feel free to ask. i still may need to balance the scales somewhat but it seems fine thus far.

if people get generally interested in this i plan to add events that inform the player when they are about to max out on there unit levels, and when they're production may resume. at this point the only way to know you have reached the limit is when you suddenly cant recruit anymore.

[Scalylizard]

Well I am definitely interested and will be using this mod for sure. I have been looking for something like this since the game came out.
I had a couple questions:
1-Let's say I have only 2 cities,: A citadel and a wooden palisade,. Can I recruit all of 60 points worth of units from the village? (50 from citadel 10 from wooden palisade) If I understood everything so far, the answer is yes.
2-You wrote that "a heavy cavalry would cost you 4"
From the table you provided (1 for cavalry+ 2 for heavy = 3). What am I forgetting to include in the calculation, can you help?
3-

i devised a scale from 5-50 to represent population levels. i couldnt think of a way to represent the actual population, so i used each settlement upgrade's 'max population' as the standard. so as your population slowly grows (from 3200-3254) nothing is effected, only when you upgrade or ur population maxes out. take this little chart.

Does that mean that if my village population reaches and exceeds 5000, I will still be able to increase my recruitment limit from 5 to 10, even though I don't have a wooden pallisade upgrade? If the counter increases with the population, it may be possible to put different cutoff points, which will give you a lot of flexibility. Having said that, I think the current limits seem practical and functional as they are now.

By the way, here is a suggestion: A script that monitors only the recruitment, and then reduces the population of that specific settlement by a fixed number, let's say 40-50, for every unit recruited (regardless of class and type) .
No need to track disbanding units as you won't know whether there will be 1 man or 10 men or 70 men in each unit without a long script, and adding a fixed number for every disbanding unit may result in the player cheating by disbanding units with 1 or 2 men in it. Hence choosing a mid point like 40 might be justified when deducting a fixed number. It comes with the assumption that the rest of the unit will somehow make it back and might be disbanded. Please consider it for future updates, it would really put more importance on the population, and your recruitment decisions.

Overall I am very impressed with this, thank you!

[Vasquez]

What about retraining under strength units? I mean if you can't recruit them, you can't retrain them right? Which means you would have the knock on effects of having to merge units wholesale in order to keep unit strength up, which in turn has deleterious effects on experience.

Thanks!

[Tsarsies]

@Vasquez
at the moment i belive you are correct, if your limit has been reached you wont be able to retrain units, which forces you to reconsider every recruitment you make. do you really need those peasant archers, or should you wait until you have built the bowyer and can train longbow?, hobilers or knights??? once the unit is trained they become valuable to your survival in the game. so dont train useless units if you dont need them for anything other then to keep order. you can also hire mercenaries if you reach your limit, relying on mercenaries until you can retrain.

@Scalylizard
1. yes, the system is based faction wide, not per settlement. if you have a citidal (50) and a village (10) you have 60 points to use up. all of which could be trained from the village. but seeing as units will be more valuable it would be more wise to recruit from the citidal which probrably also has an armourer and better quality troops available. so it evens out there. its not the number of settlements you own, but how large the population is, eg, you have 6 villages (60) compared to 2 citidals (100).
2.yes you are correct, heavy cavalry has 3, my typo
3.your faction limit only increases when a settlement is upgraded, or converted (which can reduce it). the system itself is based on max population.

if anything the recruit values are too low, the system is set to handle 1250 seperate units (thus the large size of the script). the reason is because i wanted to simulate a faction becoming 10 times the size they are when the campaign starts, the moors have an intial size of 125 i belive, england has 75, lithuania has 20.

this is just the first release so im hoping to improve it and make it a little smaller. all ideas welcome.

[spanish_emperor]

reminds me of population limit on age of empires

[repman]

Very interesting stuff !
You and Byg are developing excellent scripts. Problem is only the scripts are so big and DLV is already a slow-turner. So instead for checking all settlement DLV checks in the moment the player clicks on one.

DLV is using a different approach. Recruitement issues are checked at the moment a user is clicking on the recruitement screen. Recruitement of higher horse units is based on the military rank level of the governor in the city. Only problem with this simple DLV scripting is, that the player can use dirty tricks to utilize workarounds on the restriction.

Example for DLV:
;----banneretet governor recruiting of medium level horse troops
monitor_event SettlementSelected GovernorInResidence
and FactionIsLocal
and GovernorAttribute Subterfuge = 2
set_event_counter governor_present 1
set_event_counter knight_present 1
set_event_counter banneret_present 1
set_event_counter commander_present 0
set_event_counter grandcross_present 0
set_event_counter inferior_present 0
set_event_counter superior_present 0
set_event_counter nobile_present 0
set_event_counter excellentis_present 0
end_monitor
--------------------------------
No character --> no recruiting of higher level troops:

monitor_event SettlementSelected not GovernorInResidence
and FactionIsLocal
set_event_counter governor_present 0
set_event_counter knight_present 0
set_event_counter banneret_present 0
set_event_counter commander_present 0
set_event_counter grandcross_present 0
set_event_counter inferior_present 0
set_event_counter superior_present 0
set_event_counter nobile_present 0
set_event_counter excellentis_present 0
end_monitor

-------- Just to avoid player dirty tricks --------------------

monitor_event SettlementPanelOpen not GovernorInResidence
and FactionIsLocal
set_event_counter governor_present 0
set_event_counter knight_present 0
set_event_counter banneret_present 0
set_event_counter commander_present 0
set_event_counter grandcross_present 0
set_event_counter inferior_present 0
set_event_counter superior_present 0
set_event_counter nobile_present 0
set_event_counter excellentis_present 0
end_monitor
-------------------------
At end_button pressed all flags are enabled:

monitor_event ButtonPressed ButtonPressed end_turn
set_event_counter governor_present 1
set_event_counter knight_present 1
set_event_counter banneret_present 1
set_event_counter commander_present 1
set_event_counter grandcross_present 1
set_event_counter inferior_present 1
set_event_counter superior_present 1
set_event_counter nobile_present 1
set_event_counter excellentis_present 1
end_monitor
----------------------------------------
In the edb file we have flags as
recruit_pool "Teutonic Knights" 1 0.5 4 0 requires factions { teutons, } and region_religion catholic 60 and event_counter banneret_present 1


So for your scripts to avoid checking all the settlements, maybe better a dynamic checking at the moment the player clicks on a settlement for recruiting and freeze factionwide ??
freeze_recruit_pool all true

repman

[Tsarsies]

interesting. I have intended to use the 'freeze_recruit_pool all true' since the outset of this script, but i havent been able to get it to work properly. i will look into the settlementselected monitor and see what i can work around.

thankyou for the recommendation repman.

I have shortened the script by 1 meg since posting it. and it looks like ill be able to shorten it a further 3-5. ill be looking into the settlmentselected to see what i can cut off with that also.

[repman]

I have tested a stripped down script for DLV: 84 kb

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
if I_CompareCounter factionsize == 5
and I_CompareCounter unitlimit > 5
freeze_recruit_pool all true
end_if
if I_CompareCounter factionsize == 10
and I_CompareCounter unitlimit > 10
freeze_recruit_pool all true
end_if
........
if I_CompareCounter factionsize == 5
and I_CompareCounter unitlimit <= 5
freeze_recruit_pool all false
end_if
if I_CompareCounter factionsize == 10
and I_CompareCounter unitlimit <= 10
freeze_recruit_pool all false
end_if
...........
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionIsLocal
freeze_recruit_pool all false
end_monitor

Using settlementselected instead of FactionTurnStartwould make the unit recruitement realtime

-----------log errors--------------------------------
Errors in the logfile regarding your script parts:
16:44:21.011 [game.script] [error] Condition parsing error in DLV_ext/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt, at line 9234, column 22
Settlement type parameter is missing or invalid
16:44:21.011 [script.err] [error] Script Error in DLV_ext/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt, at line 9541, column 42
Not implemented: UnitCategory
16:44:21.011 [game.script] [error] Condition parsing error in DLV_ext/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt, at line 9560, column 9
Condition parser doesn't recognise this token: UnitClass

There is no condition as UnitClass, only TrainedUnitClass

event UnitDisbanded doesn't work with UnitCategory (old RTW error i think)

This is not working: why not just delete and SettlementType = city
monitor_event GeneralCaptureSettlement not TargetFactionIsLocal
and SettlementType = city
and FactionIsLocal

Edit: i have done the above changes (TrainedUnitClass, TrainedUnitCategory,..) and now the error log is errorfree
Now only to include an event message (maybe if factionsize =unitlimit: one turn before the freeze) and the small script is ready to roll...

I opened a thread in DLV forum to get some feedback on this stuff
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...02#post2797702

repman

[TzuDevil]

@ Tsarsies Outstanding work!! +Rep

I was monitoring your progress with interest on The Mod Squad site, so cudos on completing this immense piece of work and releasing!!!!

@ repman Great feedback! (+Rep of course)

If only more modders could take more interest in helping eachother develop their work.... you are a fine example sir!!

Cheers!

[Tsarsies]

thanks for the pointers there repman, all well noted. i am close to releasing a much smaller version of the script. ill just change the first post when i upload it.

@TzuDevil
Thanks for the support