Scythia vs. Germany

[Aristarchus]

I know there are some Scythia fans out there, and I need some advice on my new Scythian campaign. My only enemy is the Germans so far. They have no chance when they march onto the steppes against my horse archers, but now I am gaining enough momentum to turn the tide and move west. They have no cavalry or axemen yet, but they will by the time I reach them. I've read elsewhere to rely heavily on the horse archers, but also that the Scythian axemen and archers are strong. How do I mesh this into a fighting force in the German woods? I'm worried that my horses will be less effective and any foot soldiers I bring will be unsupported. Save me from slaughter! Any advice on how to manage the Scythian army and strategy in German territory?

EDIT: I changed this topic to "Scythia vs. Germany (and other enemies)" - see new question below (illustrated)

[Knight of Judgment]

i use only horse archers . scythians axemen suck against germans axemen .

[Draugdur]

Well, I haven't ever played as Scythia, but I'll do my best to give you some general advice.
As for scythian infantry...can't help much Take a loook at their stats and play a couple of custom battles, and then decide for yourself. But I can imagine they can cope with weaker german units.
Tactics in general...well, this'll probably sound utterly ridiculous, but here goes: siege battles. That way, you'll avoid forest battles, and although you won't have as much space for maneuvering as you would on the open field, in my experience it's still more then enough to utilise the speed of your horse archers. If you're fast (in campaign, I mean), you might even avoid using infantry altogether, and use spies to open gates instead (NOT if the Germans have stone walls already).
But I think the best idea would be to avoid a war with Germans at this point, and focuse on conquering Panonia and Balkans instead. After that, you'd have a much better financial position for a campaign in Germany

[piranha45]

I've found through the many campaigns I've played that AI armies are all dealt with in the same exact way, and that the exact unit compositions in a given AI army are almost never a significant factor (the AI never masses anything other than its basic Barracks unit and Peltasts).


The key to easily winning vs the AI in campaign battles is having
1) multi-star generals
2) more (or at least equal) men in relation to the AI's army.

You can easily muscle through any AI army by simply having a superior general close to your troops, and employing elementary tactics like engaging the enemy's front with infantry whilst charging (or shooting) his rear with cavalry. As scythia, grouping several generals together in an army would allow you charging abilities.

Your axemen produced en masse and coupled with a good general can readily bulldoze anything the Germans (or most other factions, for that matter) can throw at you. Of course, using horse archers will make things easier, in non-forrested territory that increases their effectiveness. I tend to keep my armies fairly homogenous though, because it makes things simpler, and you readily win the same as ever.

Make sure you do not ever engage the enemy AI army with troops that are anything other than Fresh. If the AI army is on a hill, carefully maneuver it off the hill without engaging, and wait until your troops are Fresh again.


I think you will find that by far the most prevalent (and annoying) component of the germans is their phalanx spearmen, which require more time and resources to deal with efficiently than other enemy infantry units.


Buy mercenaries when budget allows; they are fantastic (not in quality, but rather because having immediately-available extra stacks of units is great).


Personally, I plan on eventually playing a Scythian campaign using almost entirely axemen... maybe after I finish conquering the map with Numidia (about 20 provinces left, heeeh). I only play on medium/medium though.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Hardly ever played Scythia. I think they get better troops the further you progress though.

[mikoli]

Scythia.Their horse archers will wipe out easily German infantry,and also they can recruit horse archers in every town with muster field.Germans are doomed!

[Aristarchus]

ENEMIES OF THE GOLDEN HORDE

Draugdur: "... I think the best idea would be to avoid a war with Germans at this point, and focus on conquering Panonia and Balkans instead. After that, you'd have a much better financial position for a campaign in Germany."

mikoli: "... Germans are doomed!"

********************************************************

Both of these pieces of advice seem to be true. As Scythia (H/VH), do not invade Germany. But if you do, you’ll win. On campaign, Germany is too poor and backward, and cannot afford a balance of elite troops.



Yet, it may be too far west for Scythia, and not good strategy. Better to go immediately into the Balkans, and avoid the east all together? Here’s my new question:

What is the campaign strategy to win with Scythia?

Turns out, I never got the chance to invade Germany. Too far away. About the time I planted myself in eastern Germany, with one narrow roadway in the north, trailing down to Lovosice in the south – Rome attacked.



I managed to get only one small reinforcement off to Germany, and from then on could never afford to build up an army in the west. In the east, I took Armenia, but Egypt attacked shortly afterward, first sending its client Parthia.





When the Romans attacked, I immediately took the Thracian city south of Campus Scythii for support. Those two cities belong together. For about 50 years, I held off the Brutii there, while in the east, I held the twin cities in Armenia against an incredible and unceasing onslaught by Egypt. That was the worst.



Finally, in the west, I sent out a strong army of noble archers and a gold chevron general to fight the Romans. Too many armies were circling. My goal was to forge a corridor through Campus Lazyges to connect directly to Lovosice. I beat three full armies in one turn, then got trapped by two more armies and was annihilated, though my general escaped.



Any number of heroic victories don’t matter if you cannot pump out armies from rich cities and send them in a stream to the front. The Scythian cities aren’t rich, and the distance to the front is terribly long. I gave up this game for lost when not only the western thrust failed, but Egypt entered Armenia yet again, with completely irresistible force.



So what’s the trick? Dominate the Baltic for the port traffic? Go immediately into Thrace or Anatolia and dominate the Black Sea? What works? Since war with Rome is someday inevitable, I am supposing the successful strategy has to somehow avoid war with Egypt. Any ideas?



Despite the very painful half century I just had, this game was a lot of fun.

[Selifator]

Just kill them all.

[Aristarchus]

I guess I'm still new at this. I just found the RTW strategy guide for Scythia at http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=78- started years ago. Here are some main points.

Conclusion seems to be I am still thinking too much like a civilized warrior trying to build a base economy. Need to go instead and take what I want! Sack and plunder. And go immediately to Thrace and Macedon.

In the east, I'll try the tip to keep a single horse archer on the bridge to Parthian Sakae and see if that deters them, and anyway won't worry if I lose my eastern province. No one will try to approach much farther after that anyway. Concentrate on the west. Hold off Germany until Greece is conquered, then use the peninsula as a base to move to Anatolia and Italy. I'm still confused, though, about Dacia and the tempting prize of Campus Lazyges. Some say take it right away. Others say go to Thrace instead and keep Dacia as a buffer. Evidently commanders are winning with Scythia even on VH/VH, so there's hope with another try. Just, please lord, keep Egypt away from me!

PS. One thing I found helpful for Scythia is to take all cavalry archers off skirmish and fire-at-will modes to enable complete control of their movements and arrow supply.

[achillis]

scythia is my favorite faction but im still learning wit them as well. But i use a lot of horse archers, archers, and head hunting maidens. I very rarely use axemen

[Aristarchus]

I started another Scythia campaign right away and followed the advice from the strategy forum - held off the Germans, sacked their eastern cities, but abandoned the outposts and moved the armies south instead, everything south into Dacia and Thrace. Kicked out the Brutii, then Greece attacked and spent some time annihilating armoured phalanxes until I now own the whole Greek peninsula. Then I moved into Germany to connect all the territory with a focal point at Segestica on the frontier with Rome and the Julii. The Franks still have a fort there on the hill, and as my allies they let me pass and come out when I fight (not much help). I've destroyed innumerable Julii armies on that hill, even two full armies at a time - lovely advantage on the height decimating the cohorts with arrows until they are weak enough and close enough to charge and destroy them.

The immediate move south prevented the Brutii getting too strong themselves on the Greek peninsula - the Temple of Zeus is an awesome wonder to hold - but other AI factors made this game easier as well. First, the Julii, though one of the most advanced factions along with Egypt (and Scythia), holds very little of the west, which belongs instead to Germany and the Britons. Also, in the game I was slaughtered, Egypt held everything in the east, but this time it's split about evenly with Pontus. The eastern frontier has been completely quiet. So far. I may play long enough to go against Egypt just for revenge.

[Summitz]

Sycthia roster, good points, Axeman, good ONLY for taking walls, but NOT even against phalanx, Scythian Horse Archers, Head Hunting Maidens

So a good field army would consist of, 10units of horse archers, 5Scythian Noble Women, 4Head Hunting Maidens, 1 General. This combination will win any battle.
For a seiging army, change horse archers with axemen.
But it is better to lay seige to the settlement and wait than try to assualt it, cuz the axemen are crap.

[Aristarchus]

I disagree about the axemen. Generally I've been following Prince of Macedon's advice to put only cavalry in the field, and if I could I would fight entirely with noble archers, but some places can only recruit regular horse archers. The axemen are indeed too weak and in the way most times, but they do come in handy. After worrying a phalanx with arrows, for example, a mere touch of the axemen at their rear will make them break. Now fighting the Britons, I find I have to have the axemen on the field to help cushion the fast charges of infantry and chariots and give my cavalry time to maneuver. The Scythian chosen archers also come into play when fighting chariots for the fire arrows, and their solid clustered ranks are less vulnerable than the horses to a chariot charge, giving the horse archers freedom to decimate the chariots and send them scurrying away. I'm glad to have the Scythian foot units for more than just sieges.

[Summitz]

I disagree about the axemen. Generally I've been following Prince of Macedon's advice to put only cavalry in the field, and if I could I would fight entirely with noble archers, but some places can only recruit regular horse archers. The axemen are indeed too weak and in the way most times, but they do come in handy. After worrying a phalanx with arrows, for example, a mere touch of the axemen at their rear will make them break. Now fighting the Britons, I find I have to have the axemen on the field to help cushion the fast charges of infantry and chariots and give my cavalry time to maneuver. The Scythian chosen archers also come into play when fighting chariots for the fire arrows, and their solid clustered ranks are less vulnerable than the horses to a chariot charge, giving the horse archers freedom to decimate the chariots and send them scurrying away. I'm glad to have the Scythian foot units for more than just sieges.

You could use chosen archers, they have better uses than the crap axemen.

[Aristarchus]

Good tip. I wondered about using the archers for melee action. Only trouble is the limited locations where the archery range can be developed, while upgraded axemen are pretty quickly available everywhere.

[Selifator]

How about you forget about melee and just send horse archers all over the place to starve the cities out.