Why Genoa over Milan?

[Basil II the B.S]

well first of all great mod. this is how the original game should have been

ok, i read that in 6.0 Genoa will replace Milan as faction, and since i live in Italy i wondered why...

i mean Milan was way more relevant historically then Genoa, just thinking at the leadership of the Lombard league against Frederick Barbarossa, or the conflict with Venice, or the fight for independency against France and Hre;both its dinasties(Visconti and Sforza)had a pretty influent political power,on the Pope and major Kingdoms like France and Spain too. And i'm counting only medieval times,it was also Capital of the Western Roman Empire for a short period, and capitol of Nothern Italy under Napoleon.

Genoan republic is mostly remembered for his conflict with other republic based on sea commerce, which was the reason of its power, and none of them except Venice is worthy to be included, and possibly its Crossbowmen who were used as mercenaries by more powerful kingdoms. Sure it was an important and rich city, but since the game is based mostly on earth battlefield war, completely irrelevant as faction.also it was often relegated to the role of port for major kingdoms, which is in my opinion the role it should have in the game.

thanks for your attention, feel free to disagree with me, i'll download and play your mod anyways, probably modding it myself

[Echad]

1 - Milan, the city was important, but it was not an idependent faction at all most of the time.

2 - The mod is about Crusades, and Genoa played relevant role here.

3 - Milan has nothing unique to offer as a faction in game, even no unique units to mind of.

4 - Most people prefer Genoa.

5 - Golden with red over green with blue.

6 - Desire for new faction and lack of faction slots.

[Basil II the B.S]

1 - Milan, the city was important, but it was not an idependent faction at all most of the time.

Genoese independency lasted less than Milanese; Genoa started indipendent but ended up quickly under major powers(France).Milanese started under Hre, rioted, and became independent,apart the times the city got sacked.it definetely had more freedom than Genoa

2 - The mod is about Crusades, and Genoa played relevant role here.

hmm okay, but again it's role was mainly as crusader transporter and stuff trader, a role than can be filled simply by owning the city, no need for a faction

3 - Milan has nothing unique to offer as a faction in game, even no unique units to mind of.

as i told before Genoese Crossbowmen were employed by other faction just like their Pavise similars.by saying that Pavia should have a slot, or more seriously Switzerland;and again Carroccio is the classic Milanese Unit,Venice and other Italian faction should not have it, with Famiglia Ducale if u want to include someone else. they r 2 compared to GC, who could be easily made as mercs, since that was their role.

4 - Most people prefer Genoa.

lol u should make a poll before say that, i was thinking about it before posting

5 - Golden with red over green with blue.

6 - Desire for new faction and lack of faction slots.

tastes are tastes, we already have something golden, not much green(apart turks).

[Echad]

Genoese independency lasted less than Milanese; Genoa started indipendent but ended up quickly under major powers(France).Milanese started under Hre, rioted, and became independent,apart the times the city got sacked.it definetely had more freedom than Genoa

And the majority of the game goes in the period of Milan's downfall.

hmm okay, but again it's role was mainly as crusader transporter and stuff trader, a role than can be filled simply by owning the city, no need for a faction

Maybe.

as i told before Genoese Crossbowmen were employed by other faction just like their Pavise similars.by saying that Pavia should have a slot, or more seriously Switzerland;and again Carroccio is the classic Milanese Unit,Venice and other Italian faction should not have it, with Famiglia Ducale if u want to include someone else. they r 2 compared to GC, who could be easily made as mercs, since that was their role.

Famiglia Ducale = Duke's Family, can be in any other faction... Coroccio is not such a unit.

lol u should make a poll before say that, i was thinking about it before posting

Different polls stated Milan as one of the least favourable factions at all.

tastes are tastes, we already have something golden, not much green(apart turks).

And Irish and Khwarezm... Golden... Only Spain.

[Basil II the B.S]

And the majority of the game goes in the period of Milan's downfall.

quite...
Milan is basically indipendent after 1183(peace of Costance),Genoa ended indipendency around 1300 more or less, at least in the late campaign Milan is over Genoa without a shadow of a doubt

Famiglia Ducale = Duke's Family, can be in any other faction... Coroccio is not such a unit.

thanks but i said it before, i'm italian i don't need translations...
and C-a-r-r-o-c-c-i-o is the reason of Nothern italy freedom from HRE ,it may not be the best unit in the game but well, considering crossbowmen slow recharge rate, even slower ability to flee when run down by cavalry, they are not that great too

Different polls stated Milan as one of the least favourable factions at all.

right, and of the most common reason is that they used to wipe out everything in europe thanks to the AI. I have my doubts Genoa would do better. but again i'm not going to debate tastes, everybody is free to have their own

And Irish and Khwarezm... Golden... Only Spain.

well i didn't know about Khwarezm, still Denmark in the mod is gold, and Aragon is golden-red

[AmiR TimuR]

And Irish and Khwarezm... Golden... Only Spain.

what?!?!?! Khwarezm are Green?!?! ****. what is the relation with green and Khwarezm. They were Turkic-Mongol and their colour was black! just smooth black. Also 2 green together will not be so good.

[AmiR TimuR]

And Irish and Khwarezm... Golden... Only Spain.

what?!?!?! Khwarezm are Green?!?! bullsht. what is the relation with green and Khwarezm. They were Turkic-Mongol and their colour was black! just smooth black. Also 2 green together will not be so good.

[Echad]

what?!?!?! Khwarezm are Green?!?! bullsht. what is the relation with green and Khwarezm. They were Turkic-Mongol and their colour was black! just smooth black. Also 2 green together will not be so good.

You know, there are countless shades of green and only one black, which is already taken by HRE. Green is Persian Green, much more bluish shade than the Turks and very recognisable, KK may change it later although... They have the same relation with green as Turks - Islam. Green-red-black are the colours of Islam, aren't they? Don't worry, their CoA is still black.

P.S.

Another reason - Genoa VS Venice rivalry, nothing such for Milan, and Venice is pretty strong.

[ImKyleJames]

Eh, they're all crossbow tards to me

[King Yngvar]

Eh, they are both a wasted faction slot (4 Italian factions, wtf!).

[Turbo]

Eh, they are both a wasted faction slot (4 Italian factions, wtf!).

I think Venice and Genoa should be just 1 faction -- Lombard League or Northern Italy. I have been playing without both Genoa and the Knights Templar. The current game is already Eurocentric and there are already enough Euro countries!

How about Armernia and another Turkish faction (Damacus Turks for example)? I may end up modding these in and dropping Templars and Genoa.

[Chim]

I think Venice and Genoa should be just 1 faction -- Lombard League or Northern Italy. I have been playing without both Genoa and the Knights Templar. The current game is already Eurocentric and there are already enough Euro countries!

How about Armernia and another Turkish faction (Damacus Turks for example)? I may end up modding these in and dropping Templars and Genoa.

This is something I completely agree with. The game is very eurocentric, and it does not have to be that way. I would love to see some more eastern factions.

[King Yngvar]

4 Italian, 4 Iberian, 3 British, 2 Western European, 2 Central European, 2 Scandinavian, 3 Eastern European (will be 4 in 6.0 with Cumans), 2 in Holy Land (counting that the Templars and KoJ are never there together), 1 on Balkans, 1 in Anatolia, 0 at Caucasus... + 2 emerging at East and 1 in Central Europe.

Nationally speaking...

4 Italian, 2 Spanish, 1 Portuguese, 1 Moorish, 1 Egyptian, 1 Turkish, 2 Holy Land, 1 Hungarian, 1 Polish, 1 Lithuanian, 2 Russian, 2 German, 1 French, 1 English, 1 Scottish, 1 Irish, 1 Danish, 1 Norwegian, etc...

Get my point?

Removing an Italian faction (Genoa of course) and a crusader faction (Knights templar, seing as they just take up a faction slot) would release two slots for let's say Sweden and perhaps Wales, Flanders or Burgundy.

[Echad]

4 Italian, 4 Iberian, 3 British, 2 Western European, 2 Central European, 2 Scandinavian, 3 Eastern European (will be 4 in 6.0 with Cumans), 2 in Holy Land (counting that the Templars and KoJ are never there together), 1 on Balkans, 1 in Anatolia, 0 at Caucasus... + 2 emerging at East and 1 in Central Europe.

Note that the Papal States should not really count as an Italian faction, as they would take a slot even wherever they are positioned, and we cannot leave them out. Venice alone won't do it, as Sicily is too far... So we need some Stabiliser faction between the Italy, France and Germany - CA knew it; both Milan and Genoa would do it.

[Hmz..]

Realism is very relative in a mod like this. ..... No Ireland faction, Lithuanian early, Portugal or Moors (not united) to name some The Templars never exsisted as a kingdom as well. So where do u draw the line.

[y2day]

Did someone say POLL?

No sersly!

Genoa, Milan... there is another one someone is always wanting included too. It has to be one or the other just for balance in the area. i really don't care which one it is. But i do like the Gold with red better than the green.

[Echad]

Early Moors = Almoravids.

[stefano89]

I'd rather have Genoa than Milan, that Milanese backstabbing bast****!

[Basil II the B.S]

I'd rather have Genoa than Milan, that Milanese backstabbing bast****!

EXACTLY!and do ypu think they will not backstab you once their are gold instead of green?

[stefano89]

And IMO, I'd rather have Milan than Genoa, I was only joking back there, and I think Ireland should be removed too...