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Thread: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

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  1. #1

    Default My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Any Muslim of the Sunni branch with the littlest knowledge of religion must know about Al-Bukhari because that man is the most famous Hadith compiler whose compilation is considered authentic and you are a 'kuffar' if you dont believe in a single thing in it.

    According to Bukhari himself he managed to collect roughly 600,000 reports of Muhammad's sayings 200 years after his death.

    However, how reliable was Bukhari? How did he manage to pick the 'authentic' hadiths from his collection of over 600,000 hadiths? Is it possible to achieve this overwhelming task physically in one’s lifetime?

    It is reported that Bukhari lived 62 years. Had he spent a mere hour per hadith for compilation, checking the authenticity, and for recording it, he would require 600,000 hours total. This translates into more than 68 years! Assuming that he started collecting hadith at birth; if he did not sleep, did not eat, did not do anything else but work, he still would not manage to complete his work before he died.

    Therefore it certainly defies logic, especially considering the reported instances where he supposedly traveled to places that sometimes took days, or weeks to check the authenticity of a given hadith.

    Now, to those Hadithist Muhammadans out there especially Dahir I challenge thou to respond. You can contact your imams first but make sure they have adequate Math skills to comprehend the issue in the first place.
    Last edited by jankren; March 09, 2008 at 12:33 AM.


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

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  2. #2
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    I haven't seen Dahir around here recently.
    according to exarch I am like
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    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
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    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  3. #3
    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Flat-faced Hadith Hater!*

    I think you have some very valid points, even if you are a filthy Qur'anist*
    I don't think Hadiths should be relied upon to know the message of Islam. The actions and words of the prophet Muhammad aren't very important outside of what is recorded to have done in the Qur'an. If it was supposed to be an important part of Islam, it would have been recorded in a sura.

    Unfortunately, mostly hadiths are just excuses some Muslims can use when they do something that is frowned upon. It gets especially confusing when you have isnads that contradict each other, or Hadiths that were written three generations and beyond after Muhammad.



    * - Just kidding!
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  4. #4

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    This and many other reasons why it is best to stay away from Hadith. Also, the Prophet was a man, his every word was not Heaven's mandate, this, just because he said it, doesn't mean you should follow everything he said.

  5. #5

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Jankren you should shut your mouth you anti-Hadithite bastard!

    Seriously, your taking religion far too literally. Most religions dont rely on common sense and instead rely on "faith". What you are saying is completely accurate but it wont matter to most Hadithist Muslims since they follow faith and not math.

  6. #6
    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by Icefrisco View Post
    Jankren you should shut your mouth you anti-Hadithite bastard!

    Seriously, your taking religion far too literally. Most religions dont rely on common sense and instead rely on "faith". What you are saying is completely accurate but it wont matter to most Hadithist Muslims since they follow faith and not math.
    You can still be a Muslim with strong faith even if you don't follow the Hadiths.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Go on Farnan, go and help those despicable thugs you call our soldiers to kill some of the poorest people on the planet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Don't you realize that it is a good thing that so many British soldiers have already been killed as punishment for the invasion?


  7. #7
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Didn't Abu Bakr himself say something to the effect that Mohhamed was just a man and those who are Muslims should not worship him?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  8. #8

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man With No Name View Post
    Didn't Abu Bakr himself say something to the effect that Mohhamed was just a man and those who are Muslims should not worship him?
    Yes, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was just a man, nothing more, nothing less.

    As for the topic at hand, I agree Jankren. I do not trust Hadiths nor do I place my faith within them. The Qu'ran is out main source of faith. We should not put our faith in the place of books written by men 200 years after the Prophet's(pbuh) death.

    Salaam,
    Adnan

  9. #9
    Miles
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    That's an issue I face in Egypt, and I'm Sunni. Everyone here just loves Mohammed. Songs about Mohammed, TV Shows about Mohammed, movies about Mohammed....


  10. #10

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ham the Pharoah View Post
    That's an issue I face in Egypt, and I'm Sunni. Everyone here just loves Mohammed. Songs about Mohammed, TV Shows about Mohammed, movies about Mohammed....
    Do you live in Egypt? The last time I heard a few Egyptian Quranist Muslims were put in jail due to pressure from some Muhammadan clerics after they ridiculed one of the clerics for saying that according to a hadith a man can see a woman's face only if she lets him suck on her tits first. (This is a true story)



    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

    "Feminists are silent when the bills arrive." -- Aetius

    "Women have made a pact with the devil — in return for the promise of exquisite beauty, their window to this world of lavish male attention is woefully brief." -- Some Guy

  11. #11
    Miles
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by Icefrisco View Post
    How are there tv shows and movies about him if they cant show his face?
    TV Shows talking about his life. About movies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_%28film%29
    There are other Egyptian produced movies too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    Do you live in Egypt? The last time I heard a few Egyptian Quranist Muslims were put in jail due to pressure from some Muhammadan clerics after they ridiculed one of the clerics for saying that according to a hadith a man can see a woman's face only if she lets him suck on her tits first. (This is a true story)

    If they went to jail, it wouldn't be about disagreeing with the clerics, more like disrespecting Muhammad and the Hadith. As I said, people here are fanatical about Mohammed and the hadith.


  12. #12
    Sephynos's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    Do you live in Egypt? The last time I heard a few Egyptian Quranist Muslims were put in jail due to pressure from some Muhammadan clerics after they ridiculed one of the clerics for saying that according to a hadith a man can see a woman's face only if she lets him suck on her tits first. (This is a true story)

    I believe that to meet the challenges of our times, human beings will have to develop a greater sense of universal responsibility. Each of us must learn to work not just for oneself, one's own family or nation, but for the benefit of all humankind. Universal responsibility is the key to human survival. It is the best foundation for world peace.





  13. #13

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    You can still be a Muslim with strong faith even if you don't follow the Hadiths.
    I know.

    Didn't Abu Bakr himself say something to the effect that Mohhamed was just a man and those who are Muslims should not worship him?
    I think Muhammed said that too. Many people dont listen. Even when Buddha told non one to worship him, millions of people now do.

    That's an issue I face in Egypt, and I'm Sunni. Everyone here just loves Mohammed. Songs about Mohammed, TV Shows about Mohammed, movies about Mohammed....
    How are there tv shows and movies about him if they cant show his face?

  14. #14

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    They're like the Ten Commandments, just thousands... we only use them when they're convenient towards our ends.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    They're like the Ten Commandments, just thousands... we only use them when they're convenient towards our ends
    Well everything is like that pretty much.
    International law. enivromentaly-friendly products , torture , creationisim and evoloution etc.
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  16. #16
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Plus the constitution, Liberals only use it when it applies to free speech, Libertarians when it applies to frree speech or taxes, or gun rights, and conservatives when it applies to gun rights.

    However mention the fact it allows for emminent domain...
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  17. #17

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    TV Shows talking about his life. About movies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_%28film%29
    There are other Egyptian produced movies too.
    Oh, okay.

  18. #18

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    So, in Egypt, you get sent to jail for disrespecting the Hadith, but you security forces will rape your wife/mother/sister while they take you to prison for being a member of al-Ikhwan al-Muslimin? Or don't they kill Ikhwan anymore, do they pander to the extremists after they killed Sadat for calling the Niqab a "tent" and banning it.

  19. #19
    Miles
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    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Spamurai View Post
    So, in Egypt, you get sent to jail for disrespecting the Hadith, but you security forces will rape your wife/mother/sister while they take you to prison for being a member of al-Ikhwan al-Muslimin? Or don't they kill Ikhwan anymore, do they pander to the extremists after they killed Sadat for calling the Niqab a "tent" and banning it.
    The hadith is considered a major part of Islam in Egypt. Rejecting it would mean disrespecting Islam. Disrespecting Islam, Christianity or Judaism is a punishable offense by Egyptian law. About the rape thing, I've never, EVER heard of that, as long as I've been into everything Egypt. And no, Ikhwan aren't killed anymore, they're just sent to prison.


  20. #20

    Default Re: My Case Against Hadithist Muhammadans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ham the Pharoah View Post
    The hadith is considered a major part of Islam in Egypt. Rejecting it would mean disrespecting Islam. Disrespecting Islam, Christianity or Judaism is a punishable offense by Egyptian law. About the rape thing, I've never, EVER heard of that, as long as I've been into everything Egypt. And no, Ikhwan aren't killed anymore, they're just sent to prison.
    Supposedly, during the big crackdowns on al-Ikhwan that the Egyptian army did after Sadat's assassination, there were a few reported cases of rape or threatened rape against family members of the al-Ikhwan brothers. In one incident, the Army came for a member of al-Ikhwan, they didn't find him in the house, so they dragged his mother into the street and stripped her naked in front of her other children, they said to the children that if their brother was not there the next time they came for him, they would rape his mother. The Egyptian police also frequently use video-taped sodomy as blackmail, they did it to two young boys to try and make them plant a bomb at an Al-Jihad meeting or something similar.

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