Foaming at the Mouth Pro-Semites

[Da Skinna]

Or at least Israel.

Anyone else notice who these people tend to be? Evangelicals? A many and certain political animal? Those unfamiliar with history?

John Hagee?

I write this in no small coincidence to a Bill Moyers Journal report. He shows the pro-Israel side of US policy. These policies based in rational thought or not, or some kind of rational thought or not, is pretty indicative of some attitude that prevails in the US upper tier that Israel=good. Everything opposing Israel, and incidentally or not, US policy=bad.

Is this just me? Am I relativising too much? Or am I cynically (and/or rightfully) loooking at how this world runs?

[El Brujo]

They're just reliving manifest destiny from a safe distance.

[Каие]

Or at least Israel.

Anyone else notice who these people tend to be? Evangelicals? A many and certain political animal? Those unfamiliar with history?

John Hagee?

I write this in no small coincidence to a Bill Moyers Journal report. He shows the pro-Israel side of US policy. These policies based in rational thought or not, or some kind of rational thought or not, is pretty indicative of some attitude that prevails in the US upper tier that Israel=good. Everything opposing Israel, and incidentally or not, US policy=bad.

Is this just me? Am I relativising too much? Or am I cynically (and/or rightfully) loooking at how this world runs?

A lot of them are fundamentalist Christians who believe in the root of Judeo-Christian ties, and the completion of Jesus return (who ironically comes to save the Christians from jews) can only happen after Israel is created and lasts a while. Also they see Islam as a common threat, and rising rival.

[Valentin the II]

And all Palestine supporters are either muslim or lefties......Right.
(sarcasm of)
Your relativising too much

[Каие]

And all Palestine supporters are either muslim or lefties......Right.
(sarcasm of)
Your relativising too much

Well yeah, but what i said is partly why Israel are such a big deal in the US politics.

What was that famous saying by Sharon "We control the American Senate"

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Well, Isreal is our closest ally, but yeah, people do take it a little extreme.

[Burnum]

Well, Isreal is our closest ally, but yeah, people do take it a little extreme.

Really? Considering that both Australia and Canada have fully committed themselves too America. Israel can't be trusted, it has sold secrets too the Chinese and have had spies infiltrate the US government,

[Bokks]

Really? Considering that both Australia and Canada have fully committed themselves too America. Israel can't be trusted, it has sold secrets too the Chinese and have had spies infiltrate the US government,

Since when has Canada fully commited itself to America? I mean, I applaud their individuality, it's not a bad thing to say "no" from time to time, but saying that they haven't kind of insults both people. (unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with Australia's recent actions, so I can't fully comment on that one...)
Israel, on the other hand, has done nothing that America hasn't. If you should be agry with Israel then you should be angry with the US. Morever, it seems like many people and institutions have been extremely unfair to Israel. for 500 years the Palestinian people have been in dire need of a nation that they have never had, and in the last 50 yeasr Israel has done more to make that a possibility than any other country. Yes, there have been rough spots,(to say the least) but come-on, it's not like Israel is the biggest country in the world and are giving a small portion, they're a small country seceding a third of their land area, places that have some very important water shed areas in a largely desert area.
Beyond that, Israel has done nothing but be a true ally. Yes, there are Masad agents everywhere... and you know what? there are CIA agents everywhere too. Maybe I am foaming at the mouth, but I have the upmost respect for Israel and what they are trying to do. I am not evangelical at all, I am realistic, and as a realist I have to say that they have earned that much at least.

[Valentin the II]

Since when has Canada fully commited itself to America? I mean, I applaud their individuality, it's not a bad thing to say "no" from time to time, but saying that they haven't kind of insults both people. (unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with Australia's recent actions, so I can't fully comment on that one...)
Israel, on the other hand, has done nothing that America hasn't. If you should be agry with Israel then you should be angry with the US. Morever, it seems like many people and institutions have been extremely unfair to Israel. for 500 years the Palestinian people have been in dire need of a nation that they have never had, and in the last 50 yeasr Israel has done more to make that a possibility than any other country. Yes, there have been rough spots,(to say the least) but come-on, it's not like Israel is the biggest country in the world and are giving a small portion, they're a small country seceding a third of their land area, places that have some very important water shed areas in a largely desert area.
Beyond that, Israel has done nothing but be a true ally. Yes, there are Masad agents everywhere... and you know what? there are CIA agents everywhere too. Maybe I am foaming at the mouth, but I have the upmost respect for Israel and what they are trying to do. I am not evangelical at all, I am realistic, and as a realist I have to say that they have earned that much at least.

*apluse* Well said!
Onely one thing: Israel is not really an ally but a satelite, a leftover from the cold war that is still being used today due to the recent upsurge in terorism.
Otherwise, great post!

[Da Skinna]

Since when has Canada fully commited itself to America? I mean, I applaud their individuality, it's not a bad thing to say "no" from time to time, but saying that they haven't kind of insults both people. (unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with Australia's recent actions, so I can't fully comment on that one...)
Israel, on the other hand, has done nothing that America hasn't. If you should be agry with Israel then you should be angry with the US. Morever, it seems like many people and institutions have been extremely unfair to Israel. for 500 years the Palestinian people have been in dire need of a nation that they have never had, and in the last 50 yeasr Israel has done more to make that a possibility than any other country. Yes, there have been rough spots,(to say the least) but come-on, it's not like Israel is the biggest country in the world and are giving a small portion, they're a small country seceding a third of their land area, places that have some very important water shed areas in a largely desert area.
Beyond that, Israel has done nothing but be a true ally. Yes, there are Masad agents everywhere... and you know what? there are CIA agents everywhere too. Maybe I am foaming at the mouth, but I have the upmost respect for Israel and what they are trying to do. I am not evangelical at all, I am realistic, and as a realist I have to say that they have earned that much at least.

Hmm, if you think Israel's cause is noble, then perhaps the Palestinian's cause is just as noble?

You can respect a people, but not their government.

[Burnum]

Since when has Canada fully commited itself to America? I mean, I applaud their individuality, it's not a bad thing to say "no" from time to time, but saying that they haven't kind of insults both people. (unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with Australia's recent actions, so I can't fully comment on that one...)

Australia his committed it self too American. We really can't live without America.

Israel, on the other hand, has done nothing that America hasn't. If you should be agry with Israel then you should be angry with the US. Morever, it seems like many people and institutions have been extremely unfair to Israel.

When Americans Sell secrets too China, it's treason. But when Israel does it,it's ok?

for 500 years the Palestinian people have been in dire need of a nation that they have never had, and in the last 50 yeasr Israel has done more to make that a possibility than any other country.

Look, I'm not saying that Israel is evil or anything, but how have they?

Yes, there have been rough spots,(to say the least) but come-on, it's not like Israel is the biggest country in the world and are giving a small portion, they're a small country seceding a third of their land area, places that have some very important water shed areas in a largely desert area.

Place that are already controlled by the Palestinian Authority .

Beyond that, Israel has done nothing but be a true ally. Yes, there are Masad agents everywhere... and you know what? there are CIA agents everywhere too. Maybe I am foaming at the mouth, but I have the upmost respect for Israel and what they are trying to do.

Do you know it shows? Israel can't be trusted, It has a large amount of Foreign agents inside America, it has sold state secrets which have been entrusted too it by America and it repeatedly disrespects America.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Really? Considering that both Australia and Canada have fully committed themselves too America. Israel can't be trusted, it has sold secrets too the Chinese and have had spies infiltrate the US government,

Canada sens a few troops to help us in the war and bash the US back home and Australia is too far away to care about the US overmuch. Oh, and President Clinton sold our secrets to the Chinese too, whats new. Israel IS our best ally and have supported us in more things than the UK, Canada, or Australia.

[Burnum]

Canada sens a few troops to help us in the war and

Since when has israel committed troops? I don't see them sending Troops anywhere.

bash the US back home

I guess you can't really see the difference between a Servant and a ally?

and Australia is too far away to care about the US overmuch

And you're wrong. Ever heard of ANZUS? It's a extremely big thing in Australia.

Israel IS our best ally and have supported us in more things than the UK, Canada, or Australia.

Like what?

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Israel IS our best ally and have supported us in more things than the UK, Canada, or Australia.

Yes, we all remember those Israeli troops fighting alongside the US in Vietnam. Oops, sorry, those were Aussies and New Zealanders. How about in Afghanistan - thanks Israel. Oops again, those are Brits, Aussies and Canadians.

I give up - where exactly has Israel supported the US? We Aussies, Brits and Canadians have been so busy fighting alongside US troops in various war zones that we must have overlooked them somehow. :hmmm:

[Каие]

Well, Isreal is our closest ally, but yeah, people do take it a little extreme.

heres me thinking that Uk was USA greatest ally, or was that a lie too? Is everyone US's greatest ally when it suits the US?

[Sh3rpa]

heres me thinking that Uk was USA greatest ally, or was that a lie too? Is everyone US's greatest ally when it suits the US?

no, he doesn't get to determine US Foreign Policy.


He should have clarified that what he said, was indeed, his opinion.

My opinion? It concurs with your thinking. Great Britain is, and I hope always will be, our greatest ally.

The U.S. provides shifting friendship for a shifting world. Our allies? We're pretty solid with them. Great Britain, Israel = allies. Saudi Arabia = friend.

[Каие]

no, he doesn't get to determine US Foreign Policy.
He should have clarified that what he said, was indeed, his opinion.
My opinion? It concurs with your thinking. Great Britain is, and I hope always will be, our greatest ally.
The U.S. provides shifting friendship for a shifting world. Our allies? We're pretty solid with them. Great Britain, Israel = allies. Saudi Arabia = friend.

Isn't a friend better than an Ally, I mean British Empire and Soviets were allies in WW2, but the Brits and US friends.

Its largely due to the rise of Evangelical influence in the US since the middle of the 20th century, mostly at the expense of Liberal christianity, and to a smaller extent, fundamentalism.

Fundamentalists generally consider the world beyond saving and are preparing for christ's coming by going into relative political isolation - a kind of neo-puritanism. They are also not very numerous, so aren't really relevant to US politics today.

Evangelicals are nowhere near as extreme, but still believe enough of the traditional biblical aspects to consider Jew (and therefore Israel) God's chosen people. Its no surprise that support for Israel is so strong given the predominance of Evangelical influence in US politics, and the evangelicals' willingness to co-operate (with Jews including). Coupled with the distancing from pro-Israeli policy of Liberal Christians, who are ever in decline, it makes for a very pro-Isaeli USA.

Erm...shouldn't they be ignoring the Old testament as Christians follow Christs law not Jewish. If they did believe in the law of the old testament than they are being hypocrites as they conventionally ignore the whole kosher aspects etc. furthermore how exactly does believing in Jewish people as gods chosen superior folk in any way beneficial to christians?
They're crazy in my eyes like AQ.

Israel, on the other hand, has done nothing that America hasn't. If you should be agry with Israel then you should be angry with the US.

Don;t worry i normally am.

Morever, it seems like many people and institutions have been extremely unfair to Israel. for 500 years the Palestinian people have been in dire need of a nation that they have never had, and in the last 50 yeasr Israel has done more to make that a possibility than any other country.

Totally disagree the British were literally 2 years away from the end of the teaching period of the mandate they were going to give independence to the Palestinians in 1949 but were forced to leave early in '47 due to Jewish pressure for a homeland and UN/US pressure.

Yes, there have been rough spots,(to say the least) but come-on, it's not like Israel is the biggest country in the world and are giving a small portion, they're a small country seceding a third of their land area, places that have some very important water shed areas in a largely desert area.

Which part of occupation and oppression confuses you?

Beyond that, Israel has done nothing but be a true ally. Yes, there are Masad agents everywhere... and you know what? there are CIA agents everywhere too. Maybe I am foaming at the mouth, but I have the upmost respect for Israel and what they are trying to do. I am not evangelical at all, I am realistic, and as a realist I have to say that they have earned that much at least.

How exactly does Israel help the US in a way no other nation helps them? What is so special they deserve unconditional backing and support and unlimited vetoes in the UNSC that no one else deserves?

[ivan_the_terrible]

Erm...shouldn't they be ignoring the Old testament as Christians follow Christs law not Jewish. If they did believe in the law of the old testament than they are being hypocrites as they conventionally ignore the whole kosher aspects etc. furthermore how exactly does believing in Jewish people as gods chosen superior folk in any way beneficial to christians?
They're crazy in my eyes like AQ.

Well, the new testament does not make the old obsolete. If you read Mathew/Mark/Luke/John youll notice that Jesus does not advocate abandoning the old testament, but in fact urges people to read and obey the scriptures (ie the old testament).

They dont believe the Jews are God's chosen for personal benefit, so no it doesn't benefit them in any way. They just tend to take whats written in the bible more literally than liberal christians.

Crazy like Al Qaeda?!
maybe some fundamentalist christians are, but those aren't many, especially in US politics. Evangelicals are not fundamentalists by definition.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I didn't say the others haven't helped us. All of them (Aus, NZ, UK, Canada) have helped a lot, but Israel has stood with the US on more positions than any of the above, especially since the Iraq War started.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

I didn't say the others haven't helped us. All of them (Aus, NZ, UK, Canada) have helped a lot, but Israel has stood with the US on more positions than any of the above, especially since the Iraq War started.

Israel stands with the US on precisely one type of position: one that suits the local interests of Israel. To unfavourably compare their "support" with the support of allies like Australia, who have sacrificed thousands of men on the battlefield for the sake of the alliance, is patently ludicrous. Get back to me when Israel sends some troops to help you, then we can perhaps begin talk about who is the better ally. Even then Israel would have to shed a lot of their own blood to even begin to catch up to Australia, Britain etc.