Javelin Animation - Did MTWII "Mess" it up?

[Ahiga]

Old fogies amongst us recall the problems of the 2 handed animation the English billmen had as early as the MTWII demo back in 2006. Many mods have had to switch 2 hander's animations to others such as the Janissary's or 2 handed swordsmen to solve it. What I'm wondering is if others have noticed a similar problem with Javelins.

EB's latest release has an attack range of 35 for hastati and 55 for Peltasts. Yet with a range of 60 or even 70, my javelinmen rarely get off a single throw if any throw before an enemy closes the distance with them. What I've noticed is that the 'reload' session for javelins, where they wind up for the throw, is exceedingly lagged and irregular. While in RTW Javelinmen threw their javelins pretty much at once and with quick speed, it takes upwards of 5-10 seconds for them to do it in MTWII.

Has anyone else noticed this, and if so, did you find a solution?

[Radioman]

"While in RTW Javelinmen threw their javelins pretty much at once and with quick speed, it takes upwards of 5-10 seconds for them to do it in MTWII."

Like you said there reload time is set at 5-10 seconds from the moment a target is in the green...this gives melee units plenty of time to run up and attack an unprotected rank of javelinmen...you can offset this problem with a rank of defensive units in front of said javelin units, or change the projectile range in the EDU...The range of a thrown projectile has a 91 max...IE:
Polish_Nobles

stat_pri 10, 3, javelin, 55, 8, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 25, 1

Giving a longer range will allow your javelin men to be more effective while unprotected in the field.

[Ahiga]

Thanks for the information Radioman. It's a pity the animation isn't faster. Javelins should really be something an infantrymen can just dart in, throw a volley, and dart right out with.

[Radioman]

I agree with you fully...Unfortunatly the throwing unit I worked on this weekend throws bombs, so I was satisfied with the results...I'll post back once I study the Javelin unit I'll be working on later today...Like you I'd want them to fire quicker and react in a "Guerrilla Warfare" fashion...I'm hoping that reducing their animation package will create a faster firing cycle...

[SigniferOne]

I'll take a look at it at some time in the near future, as part of my animations revamp.

[CrayonVonCaesar]

ARISE THREAD! I RESURRECT THEE.


Any progress on this problem?
Does anyone know of any fix for javelinmen?

I have searched the mod forum but to no avail.

[Argantonio]

The range of any missile, depends on the following formula.
d = v^2 * sin(2*a) / g

simply at 45º
distance are equal a velocity ^2 Divided by the gravity.
d = vel ^2 / 9,81
Any range is possible, modifying the speed (in minor measurement the angle)
The maximum range of 91 meters for the javelin is to a speed of 30 m/seg,
See system.logs file
13:27:07.537 [script.err] [error] Script Error in data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 5216, column 33
missile range of 91 is impossible with projectile javelin (max range 91)

No mistery , no hardcoded , MTWII.exe use the formula ... if formula result is minor that stat_pri range value write a error.
If you increase the speed, you obtain the range that you wish
To 40m/seg you reach 163 meters.

13:57:24.178 [script.err] [error] Script Error in data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 5216, column 33
missile range of 163 is impossible with projectile javelin (max range 163)

You must modify first in velocity in descr_projectile.txt
projectile javelin
effect javelin_new_set
end_effect javelin_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect javelin_man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect javelin_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect javelin_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect javelin_man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect javelin_broken_impact_wall_set
;effect_offset -1.5
damage 0
radius 0
mass 0.05
min_angle -60
max_angle 70
velocity 30
display aimed invert_model_z
effect_only

change for
velocity 40

40m/seg range 163 meters
100m/seg range 1019 meters

Battle Map dimension are square of 1700x1700 , diagonal 2400 meters ,the bigest distance in battle map.
Teoricaly with 153m/seg velocity , the range is equal max diagonal battle map , a javelin fly cross all the map.

no limits , but for the correct function , you must change second new range value in export_descr_unit.txt

stat_pri 6, 1, javelin, 55, 8, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 25, 1
for
stat_pri 6, 1, javelin, 163, 8, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 25, 1

No error log apear in system.logs file
Attachment 54926Attachment 54927

[SigniferOne]

...

Argantonio, excellent research. Can you take a look at something with regards to javelins: when they throw, afterwards their body becomes strangely angled, and they have to straighten themselves out before shooting another round. Several problems like this, along with a slow shooting animation, make javelins less effective and deadly than they otherwise could've been.

[Argantonio]

For my this problem is fundamental, one animations theoretically apply a one model ( soldier -engine) , but nevertheless each of the soldiers of the unit answer of form differnt ( not simultaneously). Why?.
Where is the control of this mechanism of delay ?
Is similar to the file mesh for models , a unit is constructed from an alone file.
Who decides that hat ,head, body, legs or weapon constructs every soldier of the unit?
Why two catapults do not shoot simultaneously, if the same animation moves them?

The current interpretation, is the random ,
" God does not play to the dice"
These aspects are vital for the comprehension of the dynamics of the game, we must find the solucion.

[SigniferOne]

For my this problem is fundamental, one animations theoretically apply a one model ( soldier -engine) , but nevertheless each of the soldiers of the unit answer of form differnt ( not simultaneously). Why?.
Where is the control of this mechanism of delay ?
Is similar to the file mesh for models , a unit is constructed from an alone file.
Who decides that hat ,head, body, legs or weapon constructs every soldier of the unit?
Why two catapults do not shoot simultaneously, if the same animation moves them?

The current interpretation, is the random ,
" God does not play to the dice"
These aspects are vital for the comprehension of the dynamics of the game, we must find the solucion.

Yes you are right, there is an element of randomness involved. This was added by the game designers so that the appearance of battle would look more realistic, where in real life units do not move synonymously, where there is little synchronization between activities, etc. I like the idea a lot.

But my question pertained not to randomness but something else: run a custom battle with javelins, and watch their process of 'shooting' very closely. They will stop, aim, fire, and then AFTER firing their body will be weirdly distorted for a few seconds, which they will first have to correct before firing again. Take a careful look and tell me if you see it. If we fix that we will make the javelin operation much more smooth.

[Taiji]

ARISE THREAD! I RESURRECT THEE.


Any progress on this problem?
Does anyone know of any fix for javelinmen?

I have searched the mod forum but to no avail.

Yes, but I don't know how. The animations we're currently using for DLV solve the issue. We got them from Point Blank, either he or someone else has solved it, you'd have to ask him.

You can see these anims in SS+RRRC, DLV or TA:TW.

Actually I can't remember what the unfixed javs used to do but I assure you the present situation in DLV needs no fix (at least not for javs ).