Chivalry and DREAD

[julianrj]

Ive played most europian factions and so far I have been the most chivalrous person the middle ages have seen.
I never invaded first, never trained a single assassin, never even ransomed prisoners, much less execute them, and always occupied settlements, yes, even the muslim ones. I also crusaded like a fanatic.

Well, the advantages were as everyone says: better happiness, growth, and everyone likes you. You are trustworthy and get better deals out of diplomacies. I must have gotten about as much settlements in exchange for ceasefires as I conquered.

Then I noticed ppl on this forum saying dread is not as good as chivalry. Playing Russia I wanted to see how this was so, therefore I ruled with an iron fist.

I exterminated every settlements, made as much assassins as I have generals to unleash on every foreign character in sight, always chased down fleeing enemies to the last man, and then killed the prisoners. I even moved my generals out of the cities when a church was about to be completed.

Some drawbacks I noticed: everyone hates me, even my allies, and I am at war with everyone around me. When their diplomats escape my assassins and arrive at my gates to propose a truce, they ask for insane amount of money even when they are getting owned. Most of all, my cities do not grow half as fast, and buildings are destroyed when I exterminate.

But in spite of all the drawbacks, I must say I like dread better. For one, you can chase down routing enemy free of guilt, and kill the prisoners. I mean, whats the point of fighting if youre not going to do some serious damage? And it is a lot easier to rout the enemy with high dread general. Assassins are also fun to use. I actually destroyed Hungary with around 12 good assassins without declaring war on them by killing and sabotageing. If you use assassins to destroy every buildings in a settlement, they usually riot and become rebels.

Although cities take a long time to grow with dread, I havent had much trouble with gold later in the game because after the cities get established, I can tax them very high with a high dread governor.

[SPARTAN VI]

Ive played most europian factions and so far I have been the most chivalrous person the middle ages have seen.
I never invaded first, never trained a single assassin, never even ransomed prisoners, much less execute them, and always occupied settlements, yes, even the muslim ones. I also crusaded like a fanatic.

Well, the advantages were as everyone says: better happiness, growth, and everyone likes you. You are trustworthy and get better deals out of diplomacies. I must have gotten about as much settlements in exchange for ceasefires as I conquered.

Then I noticed ppl on this forum saying dread is not as good as chivalry. Playing Russia I wanted to see how this was so, therefore I ruled with an iron fist.

I exterminated every settlements, made as much assassins as I have generals to unleash on every foreign character in sight, always chased down fleeing enemies to the last man, and then killed the prisoners. I even moved my generals out of the cities when a church was about to be completed.

Some drawbacks I noticed: everyone hates me, even my allies, and I am at war with everyone around me. When their diplomats escape my assassins and arrive at my gates to propose a truce, they ask for insane amount of money even when they are getting owned. Most of all, my cities do not grow half as fast, and buildings are destroyed when I exterminate.

But in spite of all the drawbacks, I must say I like dread better. For one, you can chase down routing enemy free of guilt, and kill the prisoners. I mean, whats the point of fighting if youre not going to do some serious damage? And it is a lot easier to rout the enemy with high dread general. Assassins are also fun to use. I actually destroyed Hungary with around 12 good assassins without declaring war on them by killing and sabotageing. If you use assassins to destroy every buildings in a settlement, they usually riot and become rebels.

Although cities take a long time to grow with dread, I havent had much trouble with gold later in the game because after the cities get established, I can tax them very high with a high dread governor.

Wish I had tried to be clear cut dreadful/chivalrous I'm always a mix. Although they make it much easier to be dreadful.. you even assassinate a couple characters and your faction leader will pick up dread retinue and such.

To make your assassin invasion more effective, deposit some decent skilled spies into your enemy's settlements. This will cause a good amount of unrest, then when your assassins destroy key public order buildings, it will cause an instant revolt.

[julianrj]

Wish I had tried to be clear cut dreadful/chivalrous I'm always a mix. Although they make it much easier to be dreadful.. you even assassinate a couple characters and your faction leader will pick up dread retinue and such.

To make your assassin invasion more effective, deposit some decent skilled spies into your enemy's settlements. This will cause a good amount of unrest, then when you assassins destroy key public order buildings, it will cause an instant revolt.

Yea come to think of it, I think I had spies in the revolting ones thx for letting me know will get more spies as well.

[Isotopesam]

Ha..being chivalrous seems akim to being a sissy.....which is what I need to be for the benefits.

[Pontifex Maximus]

dread is the way to go, except if you're gonna put him in a city to govern anything.

[Old Geezer]

So if you are maxed out in dread and you besiege a city or castle which has minimal garrison with a huge force and then you demand that the AI give you the place in exchange for a cease fire and 10k florins, they still won't accept? In most of the games that I have played my faction has been despicable, even though I have never exterminated every city/castle, and the AI has never negotiated. Can your faction get so utterly bad that the AI will negotiate?

[SPARTAN VI]

Can we please get back on topic? I haven't been around TWC for a while, but I'm fairly certain there are forums designated for political discussions.

So if you are maxed out in dread and you besiege a city or castle which has minimal garrison with a huge force and then you demand that the AI give you the place in exchange for a cease fire and 10k florins, they still won't accept? In most of the games that I have played my faction has been despicable, even though I have never exterminated every city/castle, and the AI has never negotiated. Can your faction get so utterly bad that the AI will negotiate?

Not in vanilla M2TW, I doubt it. The AI will always fight like a cornered animal, diplomacy is nearly useless. There may be mods out there that enhance diplomacy AI among other things.

Last night, playing as the Turks, I hadn't realized it, but I had a dread lord leading my siege against a small Byzantine wooden palisade. Shattered their walls with trebuchets then let loose with a couple of arrow salvos. The battle hadn't REALLY begun yet and nearly the entire garrison was in retreat. Dread is very very powerful.

[julianrj]

I dont know what this vanilla M2TW is. Is it a mod?

And Old Geezer I never ask for ceasefires but when they come to ask one they always ask for insane amounts of money. Even if they have one city left with pitiful militia troops that is under siege. Maybe its because everyone around is allied against me. I noticed when I was playing nicely if I had many allies I would show up strong in the diplomacy screen even if I didnt have many provinces or a strong army

[Harry Lime]

Deleted off topic posts.

[SPARTAN VI]

I dont know what this vanilla M2TW is. Is it a mod?

And Old Geezer I never ask for ceasefires but when they come to ask one they always ask for insane amounts of money. Even if they have one city left with pitiful militia troops that is under siege. Maybe its because everyone around is allied against me. I noticed when I was playing nicely if I had many allies I would show up strong in the diplomacy screen even if I didnt have many provinces or a strong army

Oh no, when we say "vanilla" with anything tech related, we mean "stock," "unmodified," or "plain." Just like how vanilla icecream is just plain vanilla icecream. So "vanilla" M2TW would be the game without any mods installed.

[BlackBart213]

I've usually had a balance. Some of my family members were born with dread, and others with chivalry. I've never paid too much close attention to either - but I tend to lean more towards the dread side.

I don't make that many spies or assassins, but I do sack and ransom a lot of enemy troops. I make a lot of religious buildings, but I usually have a brothel, at least, in every town. I try to take the best of both worlds.

[Pontifex Maximus]

If you want to talk about my sig, Pm me. This thread is for Medieval right now.

anyway

I treid putting a general with full dread bars to govern a city. Wow. Don't do that.

[julianrj]

Spartan// Thx. Seems I still got to learn more of this English thing, though it seems American vanilla has too much vanilla flavor

Pontifex// I have full dread guys in cities all the time, I dont see whats so bad about them. My king is a full-dread full-authority badass tyrant. I find that full dread gives lots of law bonus and therefore I can tax those poor peasants very high, which I enjoy.

[yomasimo]

I let high dread generals govern cities and dont have a problem.

In battles, it seems like enemy troops start to route when I bring my general near them, does anyone know any specifics about this proximity effect?

[Son of the Empire]

No, not quite. But yeah, when I go to war with my king, which has full dread and command, the enemy army just starts massrouting. Haven't fought a decent and well balanced battle in a long time!

I haven't seen any negative effects when governing with a high dread general either. Usually I got close to at least 150% when I govern with a small garrison. Still, I build a lot of religious buildings in most settlements, so that and the brothels could be the reason to my peoples happiness

[pwijnands]

A dread governor won't give the population boost that a chivalric one does. But dread causes a fear bonus in the city, which helps boost public order.

[Bob The Fearless]

Like most people (I think) I tend to sit slighty more towards the dread side.

However I do find it pointless when you have just won a battle to release the prisoners only to fight them again in a couple of turns. Do away with them now thats the advantage you have just won.

Think I would be pretty hacked off if had just fought a close run battle and the leader released the surrundered/captured opposition.

I also believe, as like some on here the co-vert side, spies & assassins, shouldn't affect chivalry or dread ratings unless they are caught/foiled and you can be identified by them.

[Idaeus]

I like to be truly European and be chivalrous to Christian nations and dreadful towards Muslims, always executing their armies and slaughtering their cities. Once (in a kind of role playing purpose) when I was conquering the moors except their last province, I decided to blow up as much of their walls as possible, exterminate their populace, sell their buildings, tax them very heavily and do everything to get the cities back to the stone age (this was about round 150). Then I gave the province back to them and they never recovered, thus they were never a threat to me and I didn't want their land so it was a interesting way to deal with it.

How does it matter if you take your general out of a settlement before a church is built?

[Radiso-FIN]

I always use extermination or sacking.... Perhaps I should change my habits...

[SPARTAN VI]

I always use extermination or sacking.... Perhaps I should change my habits...

Sometimes you don't have much of a choice. Conquering a city that is of an opposing religion causes a lot of religious unrest. Most of the time, I don't preface an invasion with an Imam swarm, so I often just exterminate the population.