Whats the bug of thye two-handed units?

[Lonck]

Theres a bug that two-handed units have that I keep hearing about. So whats this bug about?

[Dark Highlander]

It's about 2 inches. (And very hairy.)


If I recal correctly, the animation of some two handed units - polearm units particularily - is too slow, so they get unjustly caned by weaker units that move normally. But combined with the shield bug (where the shield value is subtracted from the defense values) it is less noticable. Except when it comes to units like Highland Nobles, which don't suffer from either bug and cane most everything.

[eggthief]

Yeah and a peasant for example should never be able to block a huge 2h weapon with his dagger of doom.

[Pyrebound]

In vanilla, JHI doesnt suffer from this either ;p

As the animation of the big 2hs is slow, fast-attacking units stabbing from every side interrupt it and make the soldier block those attacks. So sometimes even a large group of peasants can kill those elite twohanders, as they never get to attack.

[Toonces]

Is this a bug that was fixed in the 1.3 or prior patch or is this a bug that still exists in all iterations of non-modded M2TW?

I ask because I just completed my first campaign (England - Short victory settings, medium/medium) and it was, actually, my first total war game ever (I've been living under a rock).

I'm in 'analysis paralysis' hell trying to figure out what to play next... and I've been looking over the faust and, realizing that I don't know which units have 2-handed weapons or not (save for the obviously named Zweihanders), I'm not sure how to accurately assess which hard-hitting infantry factions are actually useful or not.

[Old_Scratch]

In vanilla the western halberd units are pretty much useless. Two handed swordsmen are also hurting for the amount of money you pay for them. The two handed axe men and pole arm guys like dismounted English knights seem to work alright though. Give them a weapon upgrade and they are very effective.

[Zarithar]

In vanilla the western halberd units are pretty much useless. Two handed swordsmen are also hurting for the amount of money you pay for them. The two handed axe men and pole arm guys like dismounted English knights seem to work alright though. Give them a weapon upgrade and they are very effective.

Is there a fix for this? I have not downloaded any of the patches as of yet... does one of them address this?

[masterbaker]

Get those patches, they improve the game a lot.

[Toonces]

So the answer is yes, the two-handed bug HAS been fixed in 1.3?

[pwijnands]

Not in my opinion. I still find some of the elite twohanded infantry to suck in melee fights. They are supposed to be shock troops but can't be used in that way, most people use them to flank already engaged infantry.

[Xix]

Not in my opinion. I still find some of the elite twohanded infantry to suck in melee fights. They are supposed to be shock troops but can't be used in that way, most people use them to flank already engaged infantry.

I agree - the only use for billmen or dismounted english knights is to be used on the flanks to engage units alredy tied up by my armored swordsmen.

IMO I have found the 2hdr units not very usefull, to the point where my armies consist of almost exclusively 4 units: armored swordsmen, retinue longbowmen, arty (best type available) and cav (demi lances or english knights or better).

longbows slaughter as armies approach and cav sets up on the flanks, swordsmen to charge as the enemy infanty closes, send a couple of longbows to the flanks (specially on the enemies right side) and have the cav charge from the rear.

wash/rinse/repeat.

almost no use for other units.

(if I wern't playing England I would need spearmen also since I wouldn't then have stakes to ward off enemy cav charges into my front lines. heh, stakes.. I love em. Last night Venice broke the Popes peace and tried to slaughter a stack I had in the field with 2 full stacks of its own. I set up on a steep hill and set up a line of stakes blocking the path to my position. The battle was fought in a dense fog and the AI sent a full calvery charge through the fog right inot the stake wall. Not a single survivor. Was fun to watch, but I also was wishing I had a smarter AI to play against.)

[Old_Scratch]

Well, all the issues I mentioned above are fixed in Kingdoms, so I assume the retrofit mod will fix them for the GC. Also, get all the latest patches.

[Korlon]

I think the 2 handed bug was supposed to be fixed come patch 1.2.

[-Traiano-]

yeah, first get patch 1.2 and put it on, then get patch 1.3 and put it on, then get the retrofit mod+grand unit addon+ Battle and Campaign AI (lusted, Xai or darth are all good) and you finally will have a very well product fully playable. The retrofit/grandunit/AI you schould find them all togheter in "Medieval II hosted modification"----> "Retrofit mod" section

[Old Geezer]

The Scots' noble swordsmen are 2 handed and they seem to work satisfactorily in retrofit. They stop the Timurids from taking the walls from their siege towers.

[PeteSKTemplar]

IMO twohanded units effectivness cant be solved sufficiently by modding bcs of animation is too slow what might be real but attack of those units should resist to "weak hits" from spears or shields or hands. I tried to "play" with stats like doubling their attack values and it was much better but problem wasnt really solved even with this approach thats the reason why I think it isnt solvable for total satisfaction. If patch (from CA) could make twohanded units able to proceed with their attack even after a hit especially when those units have heavy armour against which spear, knive...etc should be more-less useless (sword, mace or lance might disrupt their attack, but when attack is succesfull should quite deadly, that was the reason why I doubled their attack values, but fast hitting spears were still big problem).

[caralampio]

Wha? I've been resting assured all this time that patch 1.2 had fixed 2H and shield bugs, and now you tell me that they aren't?

[NobleNick]

Wha? I've been resting assured all this time that patch 1.2 had fixed 2H and shield bugs, and now you tell me that they aren't?

lonck and caralampio --> I think Korlon is correct: these bugs are fixed by 1.2. However, IIRC, there was no rebalancing done, so some of the 2-handed units do not perform as well as they should. THis is because the original balancing was done with the shield bug undiscovered, and with the shild bug fixed, shielded units perform much better defensively, relative to 2-handed units, than they did in the original balance. Possibly Kingdoms fixed this (I do not know) and, if so, the retrofit mods may have brought the rebalancing back into M2TW.

[PeteSKTemplar]

Aint for certain sure about shieldbug (for Ive been more tester than modder) but in case of twohanded units "effectivness" when considering their attack stats, armour, cost written on unit card but not visible in battle (even if not looking to history where they were feared very much for example Varangian guard, Huscarls, Bardiche....so the best if not only countermeasure were arrows) they are bad choice for you can beat them with cheaper spears who dont need advanced barracks, they in many mods get slain by heavy cavalry like swordsmen even when they are supposed to be good against armour including HC. So far in M2TW your army dont need them, just plenty of spearmen and perhaps one third of cavalry (to rout and capture those units who engage your spearmen) should be enough against AI armies, perhaps even against many human players.

[PeteSKTemplar]

Depends on what mod you play (hope it isnt vanilla).