England - beginner's quesstions

[Javolenus]

Hi Guys,

Just installed SS. Looks fantastic - totally professional and very immersive. Many thanks for a great mod!

I started my first SS campaign as England. I'm 80 moves in and need help. My main question is: How do you make money? From the early moves I was in negative figures and have never really recovered. Naturally this is hurting my ability to upgrade and fight effectively.

As I'm new to SS (and fairly new to MTW) I probably made lots of errors. Here's where I am:

* Captured Carnaervon and Cardiff early.
* Attempted to take Dublin but got trashed by a Scots Army - have been at war with Scotland ever since.
* Went on crusade and took Cairo but then sold it to make some money. Long term this had little effect as I was soon in negatives again.
* Gave Caen to the Pope to improve relations - this worked and I'm the pope's fave faction. But hey, I gave away a city right?
* Have married several princesses to faction heirs so have 'outstanding relations' with some neighbours.
* Generating a few hundred florins per turn after all deductions - enough to retrain my original troop units but not enough to develop.

And so, any advice welcome. I feel like I must have screwed up, although all my decisions seemed logical at the time.

Scotland was fielding several half stacks against me with heavy infantry and ballistic weapons. I've been fighting the whole campaign with just levy spearmen and peasant archers.

I can't even afford any merchants in order to make more wealth.

I put taxes on high but you can't change taxes on castles and I can't afford to convert castles into cities. I disbanded most of my navy and all excess troops.

Now the Scots are besieging York (hey, what's new?) and although I can repel their attack, I can't get ahead in the arms race.

Help please!

[Chim]

I suggest you start with building all important "basic" trade buildings first before you wage war. This is my building order most of the time:
ports
farms
markets (purely for the merchants, as a market on it's own does not generate that much money)
And barracks. (note that barracks are a a great way of dealing with public order, along with churches.)

The AI get's a money boost each turn by a script, but that Depends on which Campaign AI you are using. (you can turn it off, to get the hang of the game, but you might get a bankrupt enemy and thus no challenge. Then again this really depends on what AI you use.)

I hope this helps you.

[spanish_emperor]

look at your financial status and see why you are losing more money than you make.....most of the time its your army upkeep so try to disband some non important armies, even if it means risking your protection because it will just get worse and worse in the future since you will fall behind in the arms race.

[Javolenus]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for these replies. In fact I started over, this time paying much more attention to financial matters. I also raised and disbanded troops/ships as needed. Now things are working a little better.

I am now 30 moves in and have taken Carnaervon and Cardiff, and still have Caen. I have about 1,200 florins to spare at the moment but am now much more careful when and where I invest.

Meanwhile, this mod is great and I think much better than the vanilla game. Lots of great details too. A really great achievement.

Thanks again for your help!

[Chim]

You're welcome

I remember playing vanilla a while back just to see if I'd still like it as I liked it in the beginning......

I played 2 turns XD

[tup]

Even if it means going into minus even more, try to maintain low taxes and install governors with Chivalry and Piety. If warring, release prisoners if possible, this will push at least Chivalry, I think both. Same goes for low taxes.
Chivalry and Piety both push your settlement's growth rate, resulting in higher income on the long run, because low taxes from many people > high taxes from few. Not to mention the better buildings you get access to.

Another small suggestion: In the very begin, you can get like 500-600 coins for trade rights and, depending on the faction, several thousand for alliances. So just send your diplomat around and try how much you can get, it will be a lot.

[spartan117]

Even if it means going into minus even more, try to maintain low taxes and install governors with Chivalry and Piety. If warring, release prisoners if possible, this will push at least Chivalry, I think both. Same goes for low taxes.
Chivalry and Piety both push your settlement's growth rate, resulting in higher income on the long run, because low taxes from many people > high taxes from few. Not to mention the better buildings you get access to.

Another small suggestion: In the very begin, you can get like 500-600 coins for trade rights and, depending on the faction, several thousand for alliances. So just send your diplomat around and try how much you can get, it will be a lot.

The problem with having low taxes is that the city grows too fast and surpasses the construction of the necessary law/happiness bonus. I much rather have on highest taxes as it creates a steady pace of growth and will never have to worry about unrest in my key cities near my capital. I have tried the low taxes thing as a test and thought it was working well until later on I was struggling to deal with unrest. I felt it was pointless to have low taxes.

[tup]

The problem with having low taxes is that the city grows too fast and surpasses the construction of the necessary law/happiness bonus. I much rather have on highest taxes as it creates a steady pace of growth and will never have to worry about unrest in my key cities near my capital. I have tried the low taxes thing as a test and thought it was working well until later on I was struggling to deal with unrest. I felt it was pointless to have low taxes.

Of course there's that, but I only have those problems with huge cities and then when I don't have much law etc buildings. Though with SS I didn't play that low tax heavy, I only started to do so quite recently with BC. Could be that there are some differences. In BC I don't even build barracks because of the AoR system and my tendency to recruit all-elite armies.
With smaller ones, the low tax bonus is enough that I'm way on the safe side. And if those problems should occur, you can still raise the taxes to very high.

[strife1013]

MAke sure you have free upkeep, thats a huge key and make roads as well as ship docks, etc... have trade rights with everyone as well.

[Javolenus]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for these replies - good tips regarding coin for alliances. Also, I wasn't aware that chivalry and piety affect city growth-rates. Plenty to think about - thanks again.

[stefano89]

That is vanilla isn't it? You already start off with Cardiff in SS 5.1

When I play as England, my favourite faction in the game, I always start off by building economic structures for the cities, as I am a very slow build up player and I prefer a logical, but much supported attack, rather than a blitzkrieg and recruiting mercenaries and etc's.

[PlanetEx]

That is vanilla isn't it? You already start off with Cardiff in SS 5.1

When I play as England, my favourite faction in the game, I always start off by building economic structures for the cities, as I am a very slow build up player and I prefer a logical, but much supported attack, rather than a blitzkrieg and recruiting mercenaries and etc's.

Nope... Cardiff is rebel in SS 5.1....just checked it!

For the first turns take as many rebel settlements as possible with the troops you already have. While you do this build up your economy as the others said above. And always try to convert some settlements from castles to cities. As England you need only 2 Castles on the whole British and Irish islands.

[Grimmy]

England is, more or less, custom made for turtlers. (Turtler = slow expander, build up oriented vs rush to conquer).

I usually play England, because... I just prefer to play as England, I guess.

But, what has always worked for me is a pattern such as:

Expand along the south coast of England first. Pause to build economic infrastructure.

Expand along the north French coast. Pause to build economic infrastructure.

Expand through Cavernon and York. Flip castles to cities except for Cavernon and Caen. Pause to build up military infrastructure.

Conqure Scotland. Consolidate.

Conquer Irish lands. Consolidate.

Conquer the nordic "Dane lands". Consolidate.

Then face off against the european powers.

I tend to go after the nordic lands to secure my sea trade from piracy and interdiction when it comes time to focus for fighting with HRE and France.

If I can get Toulus (sp?) early, I'll flip Caen to a city for the sea trade.

Diplomacy: I send a diplo beelined to France to trade a princess for an alliance, their map, and trade agreement plus whatever coin I can shake out of them.

Then that diplo scoots down to Spain by fastest route. Then to Portugal, then the Moors. Trade is primary, alliance with the euro powers but not the Moors. (I tend to stay faction centric in alliances). I do not ever give away or trade my maps to anyone.

Then this diplo will scoot along the north Mediterranean coast and pick up trade rights with everyone along the path to the Papacy. Then the diplo camps at Rome to make bribery to keep the Pope off my keester when it comes time to obliterate the Scots.

I'll make a second diplo early on and send him out along the north French coast to HRE, Poland, the nordics, Russia and down through Hungry and on to Byzant. His primary is to acquire maps and trade. Not so interested in alliances.

I tend to send out spy screens into europe to work as watch towers along traffic areas between and in among nations of interest. I also tend to hire assassins when they come available and post them along with the spies in europe so that they can train up on targets of opportunity (heretics and rebels) so they are ready for deployment against my enemy when war comes.

I will also send any priests I can hire that are not needed in my own lands for religion duty to the land of the Moors to train up toward Cardinal.

[stefano89]

Nope, you already start with Cardiff in SS 5.1, the only rebel city which you don't start with is Caernarvon. I checked it now also...

[Tsarsies]

whenever i play england in 5.1 cardiff is rebel. england starting with exeter, nottingham, caen and london (capital). and england needs to take york asap along with the two regions beside caen before 1100. then they have a firm foothold and can expand either north into scotland/ireland/denmark/norway, or south into france. i generally feel the alliance betwwen england and HRE can be the best in the game if you get it within the first 3-5 turns. that way france becomes no problem at all. if you dont get that alliance with HRE then the france-scotland alliance (if made) can cause real problems for england. ireland has never been a threat to me, nor have the danes. but i have been backstabed by norway too many times to ever trust them when i play as england. i also feel england needs to stay close with the pope and if possible needs to aid the HRE and stop them from becomming excomunicated (which can be a challenge).

[nosjo78]

England is SO simple. Follow this guide to success.
1. Convert all castle's on the british isles into cities except Nottingham.
2. Build up your economy
3. Diplomacy- ally up with everone around you (except scottland and ireland). Make sure you get trade agreements and get your docks built ASAP in every city that can get one.
4. Ask for a crusade against villinius asap and send your main stack there with your faction heir. (he will be a god after he wins this crusade) This makes the upkeep of your army 0 until you can properly afford it.

This should give you a good start. After this I would suggest taking out Ireland and then Scottland. Just make sure to be ready for William Wallace to spawn.

[Mjr Phil]

Just make sure to be ready for William Wallace to spawn.

Does he appear on SS? I thought it was only on Brittania campaign...

[Javolenus]

Hi nosjo78,

Thanks for this - sounds like a good recipe and I'll try it next time around. Good tip about the crusade on Vilnius.

Actually, in my present campaign something funny happened. I sent my faction heir on crusade to Cairo but he took so long in getting there (blocks everywhere) that it was over by the time he got as far Constantinople. And so I had an idea. I got my FH to build a camp near Constantinople and go recruiting Mercs. Then, after a few turns, I requested a crusade against Constantinople, which the Pope granted. Although various Catholic armies appeared out of nowhere, my guy was right on the spot and got in first. The city fell after 8 or 9 turns and I got loads of good trade plus plenty of experience points for my troops!

But finally, about William Wallace - does he appear in SS? And if so, does he always appear at the same date (I'm guessing about AD 1296)?

Also, I live in York in England, and I just wanted to say that, despite the movie, Wallace never took York. In fact, he never got anywhere near it. But that said, any anti-Wallace tips much appreciated!

And finally - really this time - I think SS is a great mod. Apart from England, which other factions are good for a beginner?

[tup]

And finally - really this time - I think SS is a great mod. Apart from England, which other factions are good for a beginner?

If you don't mind allying with all factions availabe, it's probably Milan, or Venice. Starts off small, but gets huge tons of cash and you have lots of rebel provinces to expand quickly, especially with Milan. Just watch out for Cagliari, both Sicily and the Moors value it greatly for some reason and if you don't ally with them you'll have full stacks besieging it very soon. Same goes for Crete and the Byzantines/Fatimids.

[nosjo78]

Hi nosjo78,

Thanks for this - sounds like a good recipe and I'll try it next time around. Good tip about the crusade on Vilnius.

Actually, in my present campaign something funny happened. I sent my faction heir on crusade to Cairo but he took so long in getting there (blocks everywhere) that it was over by the time he got as far Constantinople. And so I had an idea. I got my FH to build a camp near Constantinople and go recruiting Mercs. Then, after a few turns, I requested a crusade against Constantinople, which the Pope granted. Although various Catholic armies appeared out of nowhere, my guy was right on the spot and got in first. The city fell after 8 or 9 turns and I got loads of good trade plus plenty of experience points for my troops!

But finally, about William Wallace - does he appear in SS? And if so, does he always appear at the same date (I'm guessing about AD 1296)?

Also, I live in York in England, and I just wanted to say that, despite the movie, Wallace never took York. In fact, he never got anywhere near it. But that said, any anti-Wallace tips much appreciated!

And finally - really this time - I think SS is a great mod. Apart from England, which other factions are good for a beginner?

William Wallace only seems to appear after you have nearly crushed Scotland. I haven't narrowed it down to them having just 1 city left of loosing Edinburg, or down to 1 family member. But he will spawn with a large stack of good units. The biggest problem (for me at least)(not sure if its been fixed) is that you cannot fight this battle without crashing. It took me 2.5 full stacks to beat him in auto resolve. So just be ready to have multiple full stacks ready when you go on the offensive.

As far as other easy starting factions keep the following in mind.
1. Barriers- The more barriers you have surrounding your core starting area the easier time you will have.
2. Smaller factions are actually easier to start compare to large kingdoms like HRE.
3. Distance- The factions that have small provinces ie. Italy are easier to get started compare to factions like Novograd which has a huge size to manage. This will allow you to take cities faster and get your economy in shape.
4. Water water water- Costal cities make tons of money. The more sea bound your faction is the more money their gonna make.
5. Religion- If your catholic its rather easy to start as Portugal, Spain, Barcelona as you can declare war on the Moors and make the pope happy. Make sure to blitzkreig them and get them off the Iberian Peninsula fast. Then part a boat over the land bridge to keep them from sending stack after stack at you.

Those are just some of the basics. After some time you will find that any faction can be easy once you get the hang of them. My biggest problem is eventually I get very tired of micromanaging such huge territories. So nowadays I try to keep my kingdoms smaller (regional powers).