Questions about EB as a Romani player

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm doing my information-gathering bit here about EB. I've been reading FAQs and guides and the like, but what I'm lacking are people's experiences of actually playing.

I play Romans. I really don't want to discuss the whys and wherefores of that, just take it as given. I like playing with an eye to attempting historical behaviour (composition and disposition of forces, expansion by certain dates, no rush for the easy provinces, etc), which is why EB looks like a good bet.

So for those playing Romani:
1) How far along in the game are you (ie at what year) and what campaign difficulty? Have you anything like an expansion strategy? Have you been rushing for provinces or taking things slower? My aim is southern Italy by 270BC, then start on Sicily in 265BC for the First Punic War, which I hope to have concluded by 240BC, picking up Sardinia and Corsica towards the end. Is that viable?

2) How are other factions doing? If you're the sort to turn off the fog of war to have a gander at what's happening, are the big boys (Macedonia, the Seleucids, the Ptolemies) dominating things, or are they taking a while about expanding?

3) I don't do double lines or the like in battle, I like checkering my units, kind of thus:

--------Sk---Sk
------AI---Ha---Ha---AI
---AI---Pri---Pri---AI
---Cav----Tri---Gen---Cav

Sk - Skirmisher
AI - Allied Infantry
Ha - Hastati
Pri - Principes
Tri - Triarii
Cav - Cavalry
Gen - General

I've found it works well to create lots of local flanking movements and break up enemy lines. Especially once the skirmishers fall back behind the other lines, then move out to the flanks to loop around the back of the opposing line. Is there anything significantly changed with regards to the battle system/unit stats that would make this problematic?

4) Will I have lots of allied troops to choose from? There weren't a lot of Italic troops on the unit list, but I'm assuming I'd soon have Greek ones to draw on from the south?

5) Do they reform scripts work? While I'm looking forward to using Camillian troops for a bit, the Polybian ones are my favourite. Things get a bit bland after the Marius reforms, when all your Roman troops basically become principes.

6) How much micromanagement is involved in keeping your family members happy? Particularly those who are energetic and don't appreciate being "benched" in settlements to govern?

7) Do people have campaign screenshots they're willing to share?

8) On the technical front, my machine isn't high spec; while I've got 2GB of RAM, my processors is a puny 1.6GHz AMD chip. Are there any things I can do to speed processing between turns? Someone mentioned turning off campaign shadows, are there any others?

Thanks in advance!

[Admetos]

2. http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93151
4. http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93502
8. http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75948

[QuintusSertorius]

First and third are useful, but the second tells me nothing.

That's a half-answer for 2) and a solid one for 8). I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but the whole point of me posting on a forum for discussion is to get some...discussion.

[mcantu]

sorry but the best way to answer you questions is to actually start a campaign and see for yourself...

[QuintusSertorius]

sorry but the best way to answer you questions is to actually start a campaign and see for yourself...

No it's not, since that doesn't help me decide whether or not this exercise is going to be worth my while. The whole point of having a discussion forum is so that I can draw on the experiences of other people who've played the game.

[Admetos]

The second link I posted is to the Recruitment Viewer download, which lets you see the units you can recruit in any given province. So it's extremely useful for looking to see what Greek troops you can recruit in Southern Italy, or any other given region.

I would have posted what you can get there, but it's a while since I played as the Romans.

[Foot]

No it's not, since that doesn't help me decide whether or not this exercise is going to be worth my while. The whole point of having a discussion forum is so that I can draw on the experiences of other people who've played the game.

So you chastise one person for offering some good info and simultaneously come across as condemning the entire forum for their lack of discussion. Perhaps you should be more paitent and wait for more responses instead of instantly berating the first poster.

I hope that some more roman players are able to answer your questions, but please be more polite to them if they fail to respond correctly.

Foot

[QuintusSertorius]

I hope that some more roman players are able to answer your questions, but please be more polite to them if they fail to respond correctly.

Foot

It's a common thing on internet fora that people (and I mean in the general sense here) don't bother to read much more than a few lines and throw up something that might cater to a point or two, but not the whole. Then others similarly think that's the question answered and the thread goes no further than that, with questions unanswered.

I did acknowledge that two links were useful, but generally links without even a note to say how they're relevant or what they're addressing is like telling someone to "shut up and just look at these". I've been doing a fair bit of reading, what I actually want is engagement from people.

If I took the time to consider what I was asking, people could equally take the time to consider what they're responding with. Which is why I didn't take too kindly to "download the game and see". I'm not saying every response should be a point-by-point reaction to every one of my questions, but simply a response to at least one of them. Sorry if that sounds confrontational, that's just frustration at this medium of communication coming through.

[thelord]

1) Im up to 156 BC as the romans on my save and thoroughly enjoying it, just had the marian reforms. On h/m, i dont really have an expansion plan i just take thigns slowly so i can build up the towns i take before i go ont o take another, otherwise your left with an empire of undeveloped towns and its difficult to get reinforcements to your borders in time.

2) Seluecia, saka, epiros, pontos and the audei are all destroyed, with macedonia pushed back to galatia, the ptolemies and the baktrians are about equal in the east, the hayasdan have a fairly good chunk of land aswell.

3) As the romans with the camillans/polybians i used to do the opposite as the romans and had my triarii as the first line in guard mode, which i found makes a solid line which is near impossibe to break with supported principes and hastati behing them. Of course use the strategy that you are most comfortable with.

4) It depends on what type of government you construct in captured towns on what auxilias you can train there, i mostly have type 2 romanisation govt. so i only really get the lower level auxilias and rely mostly on reinforcements from the homeland provinces.

5) the reform scripts have worked fine with me, but i would reccomend installing the fixes because there are some possible CTD's later on without them.

6) Usually when a character becomes bored or tired all it takes is a march around the province or a battle to get rid of the boredom, as for tiredness just stick him in a town for a couple of turns and it should go.

7) A shot from 160 BC from my campaign,

8) Ive never really looked at spec problems cos it works fine on my comp (2.6 ghz + 1 gig) but there are plently of threads around about them in the main forum and the tech subforum.

hope that helps

[Papal_Knight]

No it's not, since that doesn't help me decide whether or not this exercise is going to be worth my while. The whole point of having a discussion forum is so that I can draw on the experiences of other people who've played the game.

I responded to your resonse to my original PM from last week (sorry for the delay). I answered all your questions, attitude-free!! enjoy dude!

[Marcus Caesar]

To help run a historically accurate campaign, try to follow this schedule;

272BC – capture Taras
270BC – capture Rhegium
266BC – capture Bononia


264BC – First Punic War (264-241)
- move into Sicily, and occupy Messana
263BC – briefly siege Syracuse (don’t succeed);
- Syracuse stays independent (as ally) for 15 years, under tribute to the Romans
260BC – Segesta surrenders to Rome (do not enslave or exterminate)
256BC – land in Africa (NE tip), fight battle then withdraw
241BC – Libido surrendered by Carthage as part of peace treaty
241BC – end of First Punic War
- Sicily becomes a province under pro-praetor (Syracuse is incorporated only after it's sacking in Second Punic War)

238BC – Roman occupation of Sardinia and Corsica

229BC - Illyrian Wars (229-228 and 220-219)
Illyria finally conquered in 168BC
228BC – capture coast of Illyria
228BC – envoys (diplomats) reach Greece
227BC – 4 provinces now (Rome, Capua, Sicily, Sardina)

225-222BC – conquest of Cisalpine Gaul (Patavium first, then Medoilanium)

219BC – Hannibal captures Saguntum (Arse) in Iberia (starts Second Punic War; 218-201BC)
218-216 – most of Hannibal’s famous victories against the Romans
215BC – alliance of Macedon to Carthage by Philip V (start of First Macedon War; 215-205BC), due to Hannibal’s victories convincing him that Rome was weak enough to oppose
216BC – Capua and Tarentum defect (move troops out and let them rebel-)
Syracuse seeks alliance with Hannibal
214BC – attack Macedon in Illyria
- siege Syracuse (3yr siege; captured in 211BC – then sack the city)
212BC – recapture Capua
211BC – Romans form alliance with the Greeks (against the Macedons)
- capture Saguntum/Arse
209BC – capture New Carthage and retake Taras
208BC – Rome holds bottom right 1/3rd of Spain, all islands, all of Sicily, and all Gaulic lands to the north (not Massila)
206BC – kick Carthage out of Spain (Spain becomes a Roman province)
205BC – peace with Macedons (end of First Macedon War)
204BC – Scipio lands in Africa
203BC – Numidia becomes ally of Rome
202BC – Battle of Zama
201BC - end of Second Punic War

200BC – Romans sack Acanthus (starts Second Macedon War; 200-197BC), there is no town in EB like Acanthus, so aim for Pella
197BC – peace between Macedon (end of Second Macedon War)

197BC – 6 provinces (praetors); spain becomes 2 provinces

197BC – First Spanish War
195BC – Romans take Argos (Greece)
194BC – Romans evacuate Greece
191BC – defeat of Boii in Aemilia

192BC – Roman declares war against King Antiochus III (starts The Syrian Wars; 192-189BC)
190BC - Romans victorious at Lydia
189BC – Romans fight the Galatians (Phrygia and Cappadocia)

172BC – Third Macedon War
167BC – Epirus plundered (end of Third Macedon War); Macedon and Illyria become protectorates

155BC – major campaigns in Dalmatia and Pannonia (modern Hungary)

154-150BC – Spanish War
151BC – captures Cauca
151BC – Carthage declares war on Numidia
150BC – Lusitanians defeated (end of Spanish War)

149BC – Macedon attacks (start of Fourth Macedon War)
147BC – Macedon is annexed, and becomes a province (7 total)

146BC – Third Punic War; Rome captures Carthage (raze!!! - destroy everything in it); Africa becomes a province (8 total). Rome holds only tip of Africa.

146BC – Achaean War (versus Greece) Corinth razed, new province (9 total). Rome now holds Illyria, Macedon, and Greece north of ‘narrow pass’

146BC – Final Spanish War
141BC – sign peace treaty with Lusitanians
140BC – break peace treaty and defeat Lusitanians (another province in 139BC)
134BC – siege Numantia (starve them out)
133BC - enslave entire population of Numantia (end of Spanish Wars). Now holds all territories in Spain except top L corner.
- Spain; destroy and enslave Numantia (133BC), then give it back for peace (or as a protectorate)
- Corinth; destroy and enslave Corinth (133BC), then give it back for peace

73BC – slave uprising under Spartacus

56BC – Caesar crosses Rhine into Germania
55BC – Caesar invades Briton
44BC – death of Caesar. Rome now holds lands south of Alps, and west of the Rhine. The areas of Carthage around to Egypt and down the Nile. Missing a small gap between the Red Sea and the Sea of Jordaan. Holds coastal around to north of Cyprus. Holds Rhodes and the mainland north of Rhodes around to halfway along the bottom of the Black Sea.


Hope this helps. I'm currently at 218BC so anything beyond that time may require further research on your behalf.

I'll add more posts on army formations and tactics, cursus honorum, and family micro-management.

Cheers,

Caesar

[Marcus Caesar]

Part II

Map/Cities

- each provinces must have a capital, with a Pro-Praetor (or higher) in that capital
- each city (minor/large/huge) must have a governor. The Pro-Praetor rules the regional capital. Don’t upgrade governors house unless there is someone of that rank to take the place (building the house to suit the man).
- I tried upgrading according to the name of the governor's dwelling (Praetor went in minor cities, Consuls went in large cities, etc) but I had 8 large cities at one stage (and I use maximum tax with no farms) and only 2 Praetors. So I have adopted this policy;
Minor city: must have Quaestor, ex-Quaestor
LargeCity: must have Praetor, ex-Praetor
HugeCity: must have Faction Leader, Consul, ex-Consul
- Tarentum must have the biggest fleet docks
- aim for large/huge cities in Italy (Rome, Capua, Tarentum, Mediolanum, Syracuse), Spain (Osca), Illyria (Skodra), Punic (Hadrumentum), Greek (Athens, Thessalonica), Asia Minor (Pergamon)
- each city has a spy and diplomat for the family member.

Economy

- you don' need to ensure everybody is happy (Rome didn’t care – as long as they didn’t revolt)
- after conquest replace government with level 4, and then increase it every 30 years (move from Level 4 to Level 3 when the client ruler dies)

Characters

16-20: travel to Rome/provincial capital
20-30: Join the military as tribune (can conduct scouting missions/small scale attack as general – so that he can become ‘blooded’, which he can’t if he stays a tribune for 10yrs)
30-39: Back to Rome (joins the senate - seeks to improve reputation)
Quaestor; govern minor city
Praetor; govern minor provinces / large cities / lead legionary armies (you won't have enough Praetors to govern large cities and lead legions, so anyone over 36 with decent command stars can apply for the Legate's position)
Consul; Govern Italia / lead consular armies
Once 60: If a general; retire in province (except if promoted captain – he will stay in the military forever). Handover control to younger general; if none, army moves to nearest settlement.

Diplomacy

- you cannot declare war on any faction unless they attack an ally or have ships or armies, or agents (spies or assassins) wandering into your territory.
- you can bribe armies only when at war
- you can only sue for peace when no hostilities within the last year
- don’t start any wars
- always stay enemies with the Gauls (they did sack Rome)
- always stay at peace with Egypt, Sarmatians, Thrace-Dacia, German, Eastern nations

The 'army section' is next

[QuintusSertorius]

But do I need to have installed the game to use the Recruitment Viewer?

EDIT: Actually I can't do anything with it til I get home (and then be able to download EB anyway...), it's a big file and this wireless isn't great for that kind of thing.

[QuintusSertorius]

Thank you, thelord, that's precisely the kind of thing I'm after.

On 3) it's about my best attempt to recreate historical tactics as far as we're aware of them. Are the triarii units half the size of the hastati/principes ones?

On 5) I was reading the bugs forum on installing the game and that's what I gathered. I'll take your advice there and not take any chances. After all it's not that much longer to apply them.

On 7) looks cool. Is the victory conditions thing EB-specific or something from BI? I mean in my other games there's a picture there rather than a map showing what you need to get. You've also got some battles lost there, was it a lot of hard fighting to get to where you are? In games of old most of the defeats I usually found were from naval battles.

Talking of which, have you made much use of a navy?

[Ovtivon]

Thank you, thelord, that's precisely the kind of thing I'm after.

On 3) it's about my best attempt to recreate historical tactics as far as we're aware of them. Are the triarii units half the size of the hastati/principes ones?

On 5) I was reading the bugs forum on installing the game and that's what I gathered. I'll take your advice there and not take any chances. After all it's not that much longer to apply them.

On 7) looks cool. Is the victory conditions thing EB-specific or something from BI? I mean in my other games there's a picture there rather than a map showing what you need to get. You've also got some battles lost there, was it a lot of hard fighting to get to where you are? In games of old most of the defeats I usually found were from naval battles.

Talking of which, have you made much use of a navy?

3) Triarii are the same size as the hastati/principes, but to play historically you just get half the unit cards as you do for your other infantry. Also, triarii only take 1 turn to recruit.

7)The victory conditions I believe are EB-specific since EB was made for the RTW engine. And as for navies they cost ALOT and don't expect to have any until you are estabilished unlike like other mods such as RTR. Each navy card represents an entire fleet and cost are as such. This makes pirates more of a problem aswell which makes the game more interesting imo.

Also speaking of high cost, armies will cost alot more than in other mods so don't expect to blitz the map with 5 stacks automatically, but judging from what you want this shouldn't be a problem. As far as playing historically, EB offers the best historical roleplaying options then any other mod that I am aware of for this time period.

To help against any lag problems you can encounter I reccomend this guide and, if you want, you can make EB run on ALX.exe it gives less lag on strat map, has faster turns, as well as a better AI!(Problem is though is that some factions come to a standoff with eachother causing little expansion for them such as the arveni and aduei)

[QuintusSertorius]

I might do my usual edit of the EDU to halve the size (and cost) of the triarii. That's not going to mess things up with all the scripts going on will it?

I wasn't a big fan of naval battles anyway, and especially in vanilla they were an annoyance rather than feature.

Armies costing more isn't an issue; I don't play fast which is one of the reasons I like the sound of EB. I expand historically, not as fast as I can.

I've held off BI for now, not sure I'll invest in Alexander just yet. Especially given I won't play the vanilla mod itself.

Thanks!

[Foot]

The only problem with reducing the size of the triarii is that as a phalanx they tend to lose much of their effectiveness in smaller units.

Foot

[QuintusSertorius]

Not really a problem; I don't tend to find much use for my triarii in battles anyway. Sometimes they do some street-fighting when I take settlements but that's it. Whether things will prove different in EB remains to be seen...

[thelord]

ive found triarii a lot more reliable in EB than vanilla. Many of the battles lost there are navy battles, but every now and then one of my standing armies just gets overwhelmed and its impossble to win some of the battles. The battles are so much better, the units actually hold their lines for a longer and its much harder to break them, they attack as one rather than sending forward one or two units at a time like in vanilla.

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm used to longer, better battles where units hold their line in another mod. There I don't need my triarii much, not unless things get really, really bad. It's not an issue of them being unreliable, but rather they're usually spectators because others do all the work. They are however quite handy for taking settlements being good in the street-fighting.

I usually mod them to half their size which also stops me using them as anything but a reserve. Do they have the "command" ability (inspiring nearby troops) in EB? I've also found they're good just for keeping morale up without actually fighting.

My hastati tend to take the brunt of the casualties holding the line and pinning the opposing line troops in place, then the principes come in and hammer them. Once they're engaged the skirmishers and cavalry nip around the line and hit the enemy from behind.