ottoman infantry underpowered

[Iasonis]

It seems that the ottoman infantry unit is underpowered in thier melee attack. They were the backbone of the turks army and would hold the main line, they had bows but certaintly were not mainly archers. Thier attack should at least be better than the swordsman militia unit with 3 att, after all these were professional soldiers. 4-5 would be right. Maybe offset it by making them more expensive, also thier bow damage should go up to 5. janissary to 6.
The turks used composite bows which could indeed pierce plate and mail. check out some of the tests and pics out there, heres a test thats good.
http://www.atarn.org/islamic/islamic.htm
some pics and tests
http://www.kongshirden1308.no/galler..._03/thumbs.htm
http://www.kongshirden1308.no/galler...m_2/thumbs.htm

hope it was a good read -bye

[Point Blank]

Have you downloaded the latest Fix Pack or Real Recruitment/Real Combat? They have updated the stats somewhat. The latest stats for the Ottoman Infantry are:

stat_pri 5, 1, composite_arrow, 200, 30, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 3, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 45, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 5, 3, 6, metal

So, for all composite bows in the latest version, their attack is 5 (and for most mounted composite bows also), so the Janissary Archer gets attack 6 for greater draw weight.

So the composite bow is now depicted as being essentially the same power as the longbow, longer ranged and slightly less accurate (due to longer longbow arrows being more stable in flight etc). Yes I know an argument could be made that the composite bow is actually more powerful than the longbow in absolute terms, as well as at the same draw weight due to greater efficiency etc.

Elite Archers could also be perhaps be depicted as having another +1 attack over superior but that was left for javelins exclusively, where the thrower's strength is somewhat more directly involved.

FYI I did look at Atarn when working on the values, and also talked with an expert on archery of the period

If you put them as 'Superior' quality their stats would be:

type Ottoman Infantry
dictionary Ottoman_Infantry ; Ottoman Infantry, lp
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_missile
banner holy crusade
soldier Ottoman_Infantry, 48, 0, 1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 6, 1, quality_composite_arrow, 210, 30, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 4, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 30, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 5, 4, 6, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 1, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 9, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 6
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 4, 595, 150, 75, 55, 595, 4, 160
armour_ug_levels 2, 3
armour_ug_models Ottoman_Infantry, Ottoman_Infantry_ug1
ownership turks
era 1 turks
era 2 turks

[AmiR TimuR]

In 6.0, they will be much more underpowered IMO. because there will be more eastern faction and Ottomans need to struggle with them also. I think Boost is necessary for Ottos.

[Sher Khan]

I think general stats for Ottomans are fine, and Point Blank's version the gold standard, but if you're itching for more bang for your Ottoman buck, check out my ME Armour Mod for SS5.1.

Along with Ottoman Infantry, I gave the Turks (and Egyptians somewhat) a second armor upgrade level. Included, I also gave Ottoman Infantry armor-piercing maces instead of swords.

This makes them far more useful troops in place of upping their attack.

[Iasonis]

i was trying to find information on exactly what type of melee weapon was in standard use for the ottoman infantry during this time period. I know the original medieval total war they have axes or maces and here they have swords, anyone know for sure or was there no standard?

[Point Blank]

In latest RR/RC they have been bumped to Superior Quality. However, Late Professionals like Ottomans have also had their recruitment cost increased, so combined with the quality increase (and extra year training time) they are significantly more expensive.

[Hmz..]

isn't that bow in those pictures from that test a longbow in stead of a composite bow

[Iasonis]

ohh point blank i meant in real life, i love the history of the ottomans and was curious if anyone knew.

sorry i misunderstood HMZ, yes your right, its a longbow in the picture of the test. i couldnt find one using a composite bow. Composite bows can generate more power, distance and accuracy. Nice stats are in the above tests, or a simplified description is here if your interested
http://www.tucsonarchery.com/Bow_Types.php
the thing is weather...composite bows couldnt be used effectively in incliment weather conditions due to the glue or resin used to hold it together, longbows dont have to worry about that problem.

[Hmz..]

hey thanks have been searching for a site like this !