Genesis and reason not to murder

[MrMofo]

So i was reading my bible a bit (not religious, but ever curious) and i came across Genesis 9:6, the famous passage which is usually used as a justification for Capital Punishment:

6 “ Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.

But it was the last two lines which i found myself interested in, as they are the only REASON not to murder i've ever really heard expounded: Man is made in God's image, therefore to kill a man is akin to an affront to God.

Irreligiously one could say that wanton murder would upset the social order, that to curtail that sort of impulse is the only healthy and reasonable thing for a society. The For the Greater Good argument.

Fear of Punishment seems to be another reason. Murder is deemed wrong, if you murder, you will be punished. Essentially the tit for tat deterral. But, mind you, this is not a good why, just a solid realistic reason why not.

Is there anywhere else in the bible where there's a reason given for non-murderousness (aside from the thou shalt not bits)?

And this is probably ethics 101, but does anybody have any other comments on the why's about anti-homicidalness?

[roy34543]

The thing about the bible is that it often repeats some things three or four times to emphasize a religous point, but only shows you the laws and reasons that it puts forward for most actions once.

[Dayman]

Yes, but then the Bible tells you to stone people later on. Because it's a bunch of different books, documents, stories, and histories.

[Gaidin]

I see we're noticing that even the bible endorses the concept that State endorsed killing is not murder.

[MrMofo]

so, then, if a person didn't look like a perfect human, and was, say, in some way, deformed and malshaped, would it be okay to murder them?

[gaius valerius]

The bible is highly contradictory. Telling you to love in one passage, while inciting to genocide in another.

[Medicus]

so, then, if a person didn't look like a perfect human, and was, say, in some way, deformed and malshaped, would it be okay to murder them?

Man was created in God's image. That means that somewhere on his body God has a third nipple as well as a vagina.

[MrMofo]

well yes i am extremely aware of this. I'm very narrowly looking at that particular passaging,hoping to explore the possibilities. I thought it was interesting, and it's always useful to get other people's thoughts on such matters in order to expand the range of possibilities, as I'm not so arrogant as to think i've got every angle figured.

How about this? Is God held to that same notion? Can he destroy his creation with impunity? And if not, would twisting an individual so he no longer looks like some ideal version of a human be a sort of loophole?

[Pontifex Maximus]

"Genesis and reason not to murder"

Ironic, since the Old Testament is chalk full of murders and killing mandated by God. Exodus...Judges...Kings...Deuteronomy...

[roy34543]

The line specifically says that MAN is not allowed to shed MANS blood
Doesnt say anything about god killing em. Or by god using a person as a tool to kill them even though thats a lame excuse.
Personally ive always thought its made sense to tell people "DONT KILL"! and then say well ok you can kill in self defense or this or that etc.
Imagine telling someone he "can" kill in self defense. Then telling him he can kill in this situation etc etc. It doesnt tell him he cant kill in a regular situation.
So i thought it makes more sense to say first of all dont kill and then give exceptions.

[boofhead]

Here is some stuff on that verse:

whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man is his blood shed: for in the image of God hath He made man.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Genesis 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Exodus 21:12 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 24:17 'If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death.

Numbers 35:33 'So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it.

Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. (NASB ©1995)

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

by. Ex 21:12-14 22:2,3 Le 17:4 24:17 Nu 35:25 1Ki 2:5,6,28-34 Mt 26:52 Ro 13:4 Re 13:10

in. 1:26,27 5:1 Ps 51:4 Jas 3:9


Geneva Study Bible

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, {f} by man shall his blood be shed: for in the {g} image of God made he man.

(f) Not only by the magistrate, but often God raises up one murderer to kill another.

(g) Therefore to kill man is to deface God's image, and so injury is not only done to man, but also to God.

Wesley's Notes

9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood - Whether upon a sudden provocation, or premeditated, (for rash anger is heart - murder as well as malice prepense, Mt 5:21,22), by man shall his blood be shed - That is, by the magistrate, or whoever is appointed to be the avenger of blood. Before the flood, as it should seem by the story of Cain, God took the punishment of murder into his own hands; but now he committed this judgment to men, to masters of families at first, and afterwards to the heads of countries. For in the image of God made he man - Man is a creature dear to his Creator, and therefore ought to be so to us; God put honour upon him, let us not then put contempt upon him. Such remains of God's image are still even upon fallen man, that he who unjustly kills a man, defaceth the image of God, and doth dishonour to him.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood . for in the image of God made he man-It is true that image has been injured by the fall, but it is not lost. In this view, a high value is attached to the life of every man, even the poorest and humblest, and an awful criminality is involved in the destruction of it.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

9:4-7 The main reason of forbidding the eating of blood, doubtless was because the shedding of blood in sacrifices was to keep the worshippers in mind of the great atonement; yet it seems intended also to check cruelty, lest men, being used to shed and feed upon the blood of animals, should grow unfeeling to them, and be less shocked at the idea of shedding human blood. Man must not take away his own life. Our lives are God's, and we must only give them up when he pleases. If we in any way hasten our own death, we are accountable to God for it. When God requires the life of a man from him that took it away unjustly, the murderer cannot render that, and therefore must render his own instead. One time or other, in this world or in the next, God will discover murders, and punish those murders which are beyond man's power to punish. But there are those who are ministers of God to protect the innocent, by being a terror to evil-doers, and they must not bear the sword in vain, Ro 13:4. Wilful murder ought always to be punished with death. To this law there is a reason added. Such remains of God's image are still upon fallen man, that he who unjustly kills a man, defaces the image of God, and does dishonour to him.

Basically it defines humans as different to animals, it states that a wilful murderer should be put to death by legal magistrates, it states that those who live as murderers are often murdered themselves - and the old "As you live by the sword so shall you die by the sword". Kind of Karmic, really.

[Amorphos]

someone should write a new version of the bible that just states [e.g. for this case] that murder even by the state or magistrate etc is wrong. it is either ok or not ok

...same applies to the law.

duplicity is ugly and forms the basis for immorality by the book, such things should not be questioned in ones mind as this is why people excuse themselves all manner of wrong doing.

[Gaidin]

someone should write a new version of the bible that just states [e.g. for this case] that murder even by the state or magistrate etc is wrong. it is either ok or not ok

...same applies to the law.

duplicity is ugly and forms the basis for immorality by the book, such things should not be questioned in ones mind as this is why people excuse themselves all manner of wrong doing.

The problem is murder is illegal killing.

If the law says under such and such situation that killing is legal, then it is not murder.

If God is "law"(functional analogy) and the Bible has examples of God going about his business killing people, and even telling his people certain cases where they should put said transgressor to death, then I guess that makes it NotMurder(TM). Your duplicity does not exist.

[Cluny the Scourge]

So i was reading my bible a bit (not religious, but ever curious) and i came across Genesis 9:6, the famous passage which is usually used as a justification for Capital Punishment:

6 “ Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.

But it was the last two lines which i found myself interested in, as they are the only REASON not to murder i've ever really heard expounded: Man is made in God's image, therefore to kill a man is akin to an affront to God.

The verse is a descriptive statement, not a prescription that can be used to justify killing.

The second half of the verse makes the meaning clear: If you shed a man's blood, you are in fact shedding your own blood. Because we are all one and the same image of God - we possess the same divine spark.

The verse does not say anything about 'murder'. It says 'shedding blood', meaning killing for any reason, whether you think the killing was 'murder' or not. You have interposed your own ideas of the morality of killing into the verse.

That does not mean that it is actually wrong to kill people in some circumstances, of course - it just means that the Bible says that it is wrong in Genesis. Naturally, only weak-minded theists pay any attention to what the Bible says in the first place.

[MrMofo]

The verse is a descriptive statement, not a prescription that can be used to justify killing.

The second half of the verse makes the meaning clear: If you shed a man's blood, you are in fact shedding your own blood. Because we are all one and the same image of God - we possess the same divine spark.

The verse does not say anything about 'murder'. It says 'shedding blood', meaning killing for any reason, whether you think the killing was 'murder' or not. You have interposed your own ideas of the morality of killing into the verse.

That does not mean that it is actually wrong to kill people in some circumstances, of course - it just means that the Bible says that it is wrong in Genesis. Naturally, only weak-minded theists pay any attention to what the Bible says in the first place.

hmm im not sure i can agree with you there entirely.

I do agree with one thing, that yes, i did impose my own interpretation, as have you. I did interpret *shed blood* as *murder* because i was thinking along those lines to begin with.

But then again, what is war but institutionalized and corporate murder? And executions as state sanctioned murder.

I can agree that perhaps, yes, it does refer to the *divine spark.* But this interpretation, to me, seems to take a bit of extrapolation. *Image* has to become the inner image, the soul. I think a literal minded person would not read the verse as such, and would take it at face value. I think in this way it could be used to justify an attitude of enforced eugenics.

As for it being descriptive and non-prescriptive, i can't agree to that. There's practically a thou shalt not hidden there in the text. It could read Thou shalt not kill, because in god's image is man made, and if you do, boy, are you ever gonna get it.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Killing in the old testament ? Surely you jest.





Ohh...........

[Cluny the Scourge]

I think a literal minded person would not read the verse as such, and would take it at face value.

What in religion is literal? It is all metaphor and symbolism. It has to be in order to preserve its mystical quality of ineffability. Only very simple-minded peoples ever interpret religious doctrines literally - and the results are always bigotry, repression and destruction.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers, Exodus - reasons to murder.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

And yet its reading in simple terms has kept it alive.

[Cluny the Scourge]

And yet its reading in simple terms has kept it alive.

Keeping a vampiric monster alive by feeding it blood from the homeless people you've abducted and are keeping in your cellar is not an impressive achievement.