How to Deal with Dacia

[EmperorJulian]

I've been poking around with a Dacian Campaign on Vanilla RTW Hard/Hard and I've found it to be exceedingly difficult. It's effectively impossible to avoid a war on 3-4 fronts, get alliances, make any money or progress at all, at least from what I've been seeing.

Although I can rush and wipe out the Thracians easily enough, I'm not sure how to survive beyond that point. I've thought of evacuating the entire area, maybe fleeing to Kydonia and trying to keep a base of operations there. But beyond relocation I'm just not sure what to do. Dacia lacks the development, man power, income and pikemen to defend itself against the Scythians, Germans, and Macedonians all at once.

Do you guys have any advise here or have you succeeded using Dacia? I'd be interested in hearing any strategies you all might have. Cheers!

[piranha45]

it sounds to me like you should play medium campaign diff. I played Very Hard once, and i got thoroughly disgusted at the relative invincibility of the various AI factions.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Well, Dacians were never meant to be the most powerful faction there was. One of the only things you can do is upgrade all your military buildings as much as possible. This is a good idea as since Dacia is a barbarian faction, it only has a limited techonlogy tree, and therefore can reach it best units a lot quicker than the other. So I suppose as Dacia, the main point into just defend your borders and keep your economy good to start with, and build till you can get your good units. Once you get them, then go on the offensive.

[EmperorJulian]

The problem is surviving beyond 20 turns in. In the games I've played I get through less than 10 years before Porolissum, Tylis and Campus Iazyges are all under siege. It's simply too much to take on at once with a faction that has a total of four provinces and no pikemen to defend its cities. I'm not sure how the experts do it, I have read on totalwar.org that people have succeeded with the Dacians, but no one has posted an actual step by step game plan.

That's one reason why I've thought of risking everything by fleeing to Kydonia, no one ever attacks the island and at the least it'd give me a secure if slow growing base to work with. Tactically I'll be able to survive in the long run if I can avoid a 3-4 front war less than 5 years in. That seems to be the key. And I do hear Medium difficulty on the campaign map makes things a bit more sane, though I have yet to really try it myself.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Well good luck, whatever you decide to do.

[Fishies123]

Dacia is a hard campaign especially since its smack bang in the middle of the map and borders hard opponents. I eventually wiped out the macedonians to then be met with Romans

[piranha45]

on Medium, the AI doesn't cheat. on Hard, every AI faction gets a free 5k every turn, and I think you get small financial cuts too. On very hard, you get more financial cuts and the AI's get 10k.

If you fled to Kydonia, the Romans would eventually take over the entire map and would be ridiculously rich, and you would have no chance in hell of winning.

[Eccentric]

Ok, I just started a campaign as Dacia and it's really fun, I abandoned my original provinces, why stay there when Greece is so close? I took all my starting units and moved to the the closest Macedonian city, I took the Macedonians by surprise and easily managed to take it, your starting units when combined make quite a large army, so I didn't have much problem take all the Macedonian cities, then I quickly took Greece, man they they are tough, by that time they already had a lot of armored hoplites, but victory was mine all the same, the Thracians took all my original cities and attacked me, but fortunately the former Macedonian capital could already train chosen swordsmen, thats the good thing about migrating to Greece, not only is it rich but you can start recruiting your better units much sooner. Note that this was on m/m, but I'm pretty sure this would work on h/h too.
About the Dacian military, warbands are underrated, they can do the job of pinning the enemy quite well, and you get archer warbands, these guys are awesome against the Macedonians and Greeks, then there is falxmen, you only have to look at them and you already now they will do their job well, but watch out, they aren't that tough against arrows, finally I'm pretty sure every body knows what an army of chosen swordsmen and archers plus noble cavalry can do. And you probably know how to deal with phalanxes, but I might as well say it again, flank them and shoot them with archers, it's quite easy to take them out(except armored hoplites).
So now you know that taking Greece quickly is important, if you don't the Macedonians can become a real pain in your side with all their huge armies of light lancers and pikemen, and Greece, if you wait to long they will start spamming armored hoplites, which are not all that easy to kill.
Heres a screenshot of my empire so far,

[piranha45]

Greece and Macedon both are real pains in the asses to beat. An AI army of 20 phalanxes is a real dog to defeat well if you only have unarmored infantry (as I did in my Britain campaign). I resorted to Auto Resolving, which worked out better and saved me a ton of monotonous headaches. Makes me wish the Romans would conquer them faster

[Gary88]

UN sanctions...wait thats not right.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Quite a good start to your Dacian campaign there hannibalbarc. I never really considered moving into Greece. Always thought the Brutii would be a pain in the neck too much.

[Eccentric]

Quite a good start to your Dacian campaign there hannibalbarc. I never really considered moving into Greece. Always thought the Brutii would be a pain in the neck too much.

Thanks, if you blitz the Macedonians you won't have such a hard time with the Brutii, because if you let them take Greece they'll become really powerful, better to just take Greece before they do, a good thing to keep in mind is that in any campaign the longer you leave the Romans alive the more powerful they become, good luck with your campaign Emperor Julian

[EmperorJulian]

Interesting responses so far. My plan to escape to Kydonia wasn't really meant to insinuate that I'd stay there for 200 turns while Rome conquers all, I was more thinking about having a safe base to work from while I strike out in another direction.

Also I did not know about the cash bonuses the AI gets on Hard, that explains a few things I've see in my Julii and Macedon campaigns with overly-resilient AI factions. It is still possible to bankrupt them in a war of attrition, like what I'd do to the Britons with the Romans but the extra cash, especially early on would explain the impetus behind the extreme aggression.

I can see the wisdom of fleeing into Greece, I know from Experience that if you can hold the Bruti and then expel them from Apollonia, they'll never expand or do anything at all except constantly try to retake that beachhead. It's pretty funny, as Macedon I defeated the Bruti by outliving their family line, with two and only two provinces they were unable to produce enough family members to survive and eventually their Italian towns just went rebel. In addition to this leaving Porolissum and Campus Iazyges would cut down on the number of fronts and enemies you'd have to face at once. Though you could still end up in a 3-pronged war, such an affair is quite different when you own Greece as opposed to just owning Dacia+Thrace.

I know from experience Chosen Swordsmen (upgraded) can be a royal pain, even for my Roman Armies. I also know all too well the power of Pikemen in city streets and certainly rushing and obliterating the Macedonians post-haste would remedy that problem. The Greeks would present other issues but with adequate cavalry and enough soldiers to hold the line they could likely be dealt with as well. I remember from my old Bruti campaigns that the best way to deal with Macedon was to hit them hard and fast, and I'm sure that would hold true as Dacia as well.

I personally almost never auto-resolve in RTW, usually because it ends up being stupid and either making me lose when I should win, or giving me costly casualties in the hundreds when if it were me I would barely lose 10 much less 300 men. Interesting to hear that it worked out well for you though, piranha. 20 Phalanxes however, as I mentioned in a past thread are FAR harder know to defeat then they were in RTW 1.0. I remember using about 6 Equites to defeat a full stack of hoplites, militia hoplites, and armored hoplites by a bait and attack maneuver in RTW 1.0. Good luck trying that now!

I'm guessing my best bet would be to go straight for Bylazora and attempt to take out as many of the Macedonian stacks in the field as possible. Don't want to get into city warfare with those guys. And then to head down and obliterate Thessalonica, which would give me a good base of operations. Another plus to Greece is you'll be able to acquire at least a few strong points with stone walls, like Athens and Corinth which would help for Defensive purposes quite a bit. I'll have to give this strategy a shot and see what happens. Cheers!

[mikoli]

Destroy Thrace as soon as possible-in about 10 turns.If you do that, attack Macedonia and recruit tons of archer warband to wipe down enemy's phalanxs.But don'T FORGET to block bridge with half stack near Campus Getae because Scythia will attack you for certain.After you destroy Macedonia the victory is yours.Watch out for Germans and you must destroy Thrace very early-that is your way to victory.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Good luck EmperorJulian. And I assure you that the capture of Athens, Sparta and the rest of the Greek peninsular should give you a fairly steady income, and a great base to branch off from.

[EmperorJulian]

Thanks for all the luck-wishing and what not. I'm wrapping up a Julii campaign that kind of stalemated after the Bruti and Egyptians took part of the map and I took the rest. No one has been outlawed yet but the Senate is getting very pointed with its demands that I get into a war with the Pharaoh, not something I particularly want to do. I saw in this campaign the benefit of cutting off at least one of the Roman factions by expanding into Scipionic territory in Africa early on, this has left them a small and unimposing faction. The only real pain is that now I share no borders with anyone other than my Roman neighbors.

At any rate I'm going to try to get this Dacian thing going tonight, taking out the Thracians certainly seems like an adequate plan (that I have in fact tried) and can be done in a relatively short period of time. I just haven't figured out how to survive after that, since as I've said, left unopposed, the Macedonian forces can become very imposing very quickly.

If successful I might consider doing an AAR on this campaign, might be a lark if it works out.

[EmperorJulian]

Well I've finished with the first twenty years or so of this campaign. As expected I lost Prolissum to Thrace, and Campus Iazyges revolted to the rebels. On the other hand I gained all of Greece outside of Epirus, which is controlled by the Bruti, and Byzantium which I managed to gain before wiping out the Greek States in my area. So I have eight regions and a pretty good income by 250 BC.

This wasn't very easy however, and alot of quirky things happened. Four peasant units in Porolissum held off a small Thracian detachment (with general) for several waves of sieges. I do not know how this happened, I auto-resolved each battle since I figured I'd lose the city rapidly but they inexplicably won time and again. In fact I held on to my two original provinces much longer than expected and was rather glad to be rid of them in the end.

I also had problems with the plague, at one point 4 of my generals were infected, but fortunately for me none of them died, I only lost one family member during a siege in Bylazora where my AI controlled reinforcements loitered around outside the city for a bit too long. Therefore, the first phase of my game, transition to and conquest of Greece has worked out quite well. Phase Two, war with the Romans is right around the corner.

I'm not at all sure how I'll deal with the Bruti, as yet. I'm at peace with everyone else, even Thrace asked for a ceasefire after I took Sparta. My faction leader has "the Conqueror" as a title (pretty sweet there) as well. I did exterminate all the population centers as I took them, ordinarily this would not be my policy as I prefer to enslave early on to expand my other cities population. Given my small force and general inability to fund reinforcements (at one point I was -3000 denarii in the hole) I felt it more prudent to eradicate the Greek natives rather than face potential revolts.

I'm currently building blacksmiths and I was sure to choose the shrine types that would upgrade my weapons or help me produce Naked Fanatics. I'll let you know how war with the Bruti goes, hopefully if I'm able to hold them off or take Apollonia (not a good base really due to slow growth) I may be able to capture Rhodes and Crete as well. Just have to see what happens. I can see why this is a workable strategy at least in the short run, I'll be interested to see how it pans out down the line, cheers!

[Fishies123]

Thats a good start! Way better than how I did with my dacian campaign! Keep the news coming, its nice to hear how other people do things

[EmperorJulian]

Well I got a bit into Phase 2 against the Bruti today. Some interesting things happened. First I had to restart as I found staying passive for a couple of turns meant 5 full stacks wandered into my territory, 3 Bruti, 2 Thracian. I needed to restart and think up a better strategy. Eventually I decided hitting Thrace hard right away would be my best bet. So I deployed two half-stacks with upgraded men and quickly took Tylis and Campus Getae (sp?). Thrace is now restricted, ironically, to my former homelands, they have some big stacks there but they're not moving at the moment.

That put off the Bruti for a few turns but eventually 3 full stacks with 3 generals did filter into my territory. I managed to talke Apollonia from the Romans as they had focused their stacks on Thessalonica (as usual), that allowed me to divide their forces, at least in part. Two 3/4ths stacks hovered around Bylazora and I eventually took them on with 3 stacks of my own, loosing a general in the process but obliterating their field forces (and killing a Censor). The other stack was crushed at Apollonia, thus removing the immediate Bruti threat. They wont give up but their field forces are decimated for now.

I also had an interesting battle with a rebel general at Athens. I was fighting with militia hoplites as they came up their ladders and for some reason rather than making it up to the top, most of them committed suicide, and fell down into a nice little row beneath the ladders. Guess I killed too many of them at once.

Scythia is spoiling for a fight as they're trying to bribe my towns now. I have a big 3-general stack that I'm going to use to try to take Salona, it's somewhat unfortunate since the Bruti managed to take Patavium and Segestica so I don't have them bottled up very well at the moment. I'm also trying to fit out an expedition to Rhodes, getting that huge bonus to sea-trade and a trade agreement with Pontus should put me on the right track to financial security. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

[EmperorJulian]

Well just a few more points with Dacia here. I got into a prolonged slog with the Bruti and haven't really made much progress since my initial Phase I victories. I'm just about 70 years in and have just under 20 provinces.

The city of Salona seemed to be the only one the Bruti wished to attack and it was sieged again and again over a period of about twenty years until I finally broke out of the pocket and made my way west to deal with some of the Bruti's new acquisitions. I also took advantage of a rebellion in Cyprus to take the island from Egypt and I acquired Chersoneos in a similar fashion. My lands are sadly spread out far and wide and controlling my citizens is becoming more and more difficult.

The main things I accomplished in this prolonged Phase II against the Bruti was the conquest of Aquincum, Segestica, and Iuvavum. I ceeded Iuvavum to Pontus, which was under strong-siege by Egypt as it was outside of my controlling interests, and it would have given me a border with the Julii which is something I really really do not want. my conquests have allowed me to form a kind of crescent around my old home lands the re-conquest of which is my next priority. I also gained a number of heroic victories by holding river-fords in the Balkans, which allowed me to nearly annihilate the Bruti's entire field force. My only set backs were losing Bylazora for 2 turns and Egypt capturing Pergamum before I had a chance to get there.

at any Rate the Bruti are reduced to just Patavium, Tarentum and Croton and I'm considering Phase II complete, at the moment it would be foolish for me to press on into Italy as that would lead to a clash against the dreaded Julii. I could secure Sicily however, the only problem being its long distance from my capital and inevitable massive culture penalties. At the moment I'm not sure what my next move is. Egypt is mowing down everything in the East as usual (might want to change their AI behavior) and so once again I'm stuck expanding West or North.

Once I get rid of Thrace I can consider where to go next I might actually try to conquer Scythia and Southern Russia to the Caspian sea. Incidentally I'm finding out rapidly that defeating the Romans requires strong defensive positions, massive numerical advantage and some good level of skill otherwise I'd get wiped out constantly. Let's just hope the Julii don't send a million full stacks of Urban and Praetorian Cohorts my way.