Kurdistan: should it be independent?

[NaptownKnight]

Although Iraqis and Kurds seem to be getting along just fine, it's no secret that many Iraqi Arabs are not pleased with the amount of political power the Kurds have gained after the US invasion. We all of course know how the Kurds were treated during Saddam's reign. The creation of the Kurdish state (Kurdistan) would assure that a Kurdish-Arabic conflict would not develop in Iraq, and Turkish Kurds might feel the need to migrate there (therefore mostly solving the PKK-Turkey conflict). So, with Kosovo being independent, do you think the Kurds have a strong case also?

Note: Kurdistan is pretty autonomous right now, they have their own flag and army, and the Iraqi president is Kurdish. Kurds also have the added protection that comes with being America's friends.


Personally I feel that they should be given the choice. If most of the Kurds want independence they should be granted it and supported.

[gaius valerius]

Independance is a problem due to the spreaded nature of the Kurdish kin themselves. Personally I'm pro-Kurdish independance, but practically this is pretty much impossible (at this time) as to many nations have concerns at stake. That's why I say they should first of all go for a sort of autonomous region, and not just de facto autonomy, but on paper autonomy, which would be in Iraq. By which I mean a federalised Iraq. Or we could all keep it civil and acknowledge the existence of Kurds from Turkey to Iran, and cease all oppression. On the other hand, Kurds will also have to give up certain goals, such as the creation of a larger Kurdish state, or at least, give up the armed fight for it. A federal Iraq with a nothern Kurdish region seems fine to me. Independance is something for the long run.

[Dr. Croccer]

No, because

1. They aren't oppressed.
2. No mass rallies so far
3. the few independence parties like the PKK often use violence, which of course isn't good for debates. Need elimination now please.

[NaptownKnight]

They were not oppressed under Saddam? And I would say such a large resistance group would show that the people there want independence, just as large rallies do.

[Dr. Croccer]

They were not oppressed under Saddam? And I would say such a large resistance group would show that the people there want independence, just as large rallies do.

Saddam is gone. No threat anymore. The Jews aren't threatend anymore, Hitler''s is dead.

And just because there is a resistance group (it isn't even that large) doesn't mean everybody supports them. Al Queda is a large resistance group...

[Каие]

Saddam is gone. No threat anymore. The Jews aren't threatend anymore, Hitler''s is dead.

The Jews after WW2, must have missed your Email. Besides Saddam may be gone, like Milosevic but his crime remain a memory and pain to those who suffered, thus Kosova and Kurdistan have something in common.

@OP.
The Kurds don't have their own country yet the Arabs whom they are ruled by have several, the Turks have one and the Persians have one. Why not the Kurds.
The Right to Self Determination must be preserved. I say we call for a referendum, Quebec style if they say Yes, they can be free, if No, then no problem.

[Earl of Rochester]

It is sad that a people as numerous as the Kurds do not have a state, but they are divided among too many nations. To give them a state would cause a lot of friction in an already very unstable region.

I think what is most important is that the Turkish government does more to ensure the prosperity of the Kurdish regions. Nobody would want independence if everything is going well.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Well, they were supposed to be given their own autonomous region under British Control after the Ottoman Empire fell. However, I believe Ataturk decided not to. I may be wrong, I'll read up on it more.

Right now, though, it would be a bad idea. Though I am definitely for a Kurdish state.

[Farnan]

None of the Kurdish political parties, besides the terrorist PKK, want independence. The Kurdish party in Turkey simply wants a status similiar to what the Iraqi Kurds have.

[PointOfViewGun]

I highly doubt that any Kurds would migrate outside of Turkey if any Kurdish state was formed. For years Kurds migrated to Turkey. There is no debate about if Kurds were living there or not, of course they were and are but for the last 500 years they're living there with Turks. They just managed to live better with Turks and they remained in where they were living. The formation of a Kurdish state would do nothing but undermining all the work put in the South-Eastern region of Turkey that PKK is literally dying to destroy.

[NaptownKnight]

I highly doubt that any Kurds would migrate outside of Turkey if any Kurdish state was formed. For years Kurds migrated to Turkey. There is no debate about if Kurds were living there or not, of course they were and are but for the last 500 years they're living there with Turks. They just managed to live better with Turks and they remained in where they were living. The formation of a Kurdish state would do nothing but undermining all the work put in the South-Eastern region of Turkey that PKK is literally dying to destroy.

I am not well informed about this conflict, but it seems that Kurds and Turks do not get along as well as you say, there wouldn't be a reason for the PKK. Resistance movements (even terrorist ones) arise for a reason.

[PointOfViewGun]

I am not well informed about this conflict, but it seems that Kurds and Turks do not get along as well as you say, there wouldn't be a reason for the PKK. Resistance movements (even terrorist ones) arise for a reason.

They used to be a communist group, than they started killing teacher and doctors that were sent to the Southern-East of Turkey as part of the GAP project and more than 30 thousand civilian and military personal died. They never had any major support from the Kurds and still don't.

[white-wolf]

I am not well informed about this conflict, but it seems that Kurds and Turks do not get along as well as you say, there wouldn't be a reason for the PKK. Resistance movements (even terrorist ones) arise for a reason.

Kurds and Turks do get well along. We had/have Kurdish Presidents, Prime ministers, ministers. Marriage between Turks and Kurds common. Current Turkish Goverment (the ruling party, AKP) has support most of Kurds. The DTP (sin fein? of PKK) is boasting 20 members in the Parliment; AKP has 70 kurdish parliment members.

PKK is another matter. They are a Maoist/Leninist terrorist organisation. They kill civilians, public workers, children, even babies.

[NaptownKnight]

I read a BBC article on the situation, and in that article it says the Turkish government has been accused of dressing up as PKK and killing civilians. Of course there's no proof of that, but I was just throwing it out there.

[PointOfViewGun]

I read a BBC article on the situation, and in that article it says the Turkish government has been accused of dressing up as PKK and killing civilians. Of course there's no proof of that, but I was just throwing it out there.

Then it's the most successful con of ever seen in the history of mankind with the help of European countries and America.

[Mother Yoda]

Yes, Yes, and Yes is my short answer. The only exception is if they truly don't want to leave, but I still think that it would detrimental to them.

[NaptownKnight]

Yes, I know. I am sure the American government, a long with the EU, would not say that the PKK were terrorists if the Turkish government was doing this. But it's not like we haven't ignored terrorism, or despicable war crimes, before. Turkey is a valuable ally to the west right now, I am sure we don't want to upset them any.

[PointOfViewGun]

Yes, I know. I am sure the American government, a long with the EU, would not say that the PKK were terrorists if the Turkish government was doing this. But it's not like we haven't ignored terrorism, or despicable war crimes, before. Turkey is a valuable ally to the west right now, I am sure we don't want to upset them any.

The former leader of PKK was caught with the help of U.S. government and Europe was sort of a safe house and a money farm for the group which makes those entities as a part of the creaters of the scheme.

[Condell]

The former leader of PKK was caught with the help of U.S. government and Europe was sort of a safe house and a money farm for the group which makes those entities as a part of the creaters of the scheme.

There can be supporters of PKK anywhere, but other than Greece and Cyprus i don't think any country aided him that explicitly. After all he was caught leaving the Greek embassy in Kenya, and was holding a Cyprus passport.

US intelligence led directly to his capture and its is widely believed Mossad also had a hand in the whole thing.

[PointOfViewGun]

There can be supporters of PKK anywhere, but other than Greece and Cyprus i don't think any country aided him that explicitly. After all he was caught leaving the Greek embassy in Kenya, and was holding a Cyprus passport.

US intelligence led directly to his capture and its is widely believed Mossad also had a hand in the whole thing.

The math is simple:
Few known members of PKK that are wanted in Turkey can walk free and even attend public meetings in European countries where they're part of EU that recognizes PKK as a terrorist group.

Wouldn't you be pissed if you saw Osama in Turkey, a country that sees Al Queda as a terrorist group, giving a speech in a famous convention center with the whole press present there?