Free Will.

[eventhorizen]

About time we had this topic.

Prove Free Will, or in the absence of proof argue its theoretical validity.

[Chaigidel]

I have just decided to piss out of my window, now there is no good reason for it but I did it anyway.

there it is.

[KodiBurns]

I have just decided to piss out of my window, now there is no good reason for it but I did it anyway.

there it is.

Hahahaha

milkshake = drunk

[Dayman]

I have just decided to piss out of my window, now there is no good reason for it but I did it anyway.

there it is.

You did that in response to this topic.

[eventhorizen]

I have just decided to piss out of my window, now there is no good reason for it but I did it anyway.

there it is.

That is not proof of Free Will, that is proof that you believe Free Will exists.

For no good reason a tree fell down outside. Does it have Free Will too?

A proof is different from a claim. Try again, this time with an arguement as to why what you think is Free Will actually is Free Will.

This thread is an excellent example of the very thing I aimed for in my OP, the proof of the utter fallacy and impossibility of the assumption of Free Will.

[gambit]

It is our minds and souls that guide our bodies, hence our actions nothing else can. We choose to follow religion, orders, etc. even if someone has a gun to our head obviously logic says don't get killed but I can decide to try and be a hero or just not get my face blown off. Also mind control is someone taking control of our free will, it doesn't mean free will isn't there just overtaken by a more powerful force.

[KodiBurns]

Also mind control is someone taking control of our free will, it doesn't mean free will isn't there just overtaken by a more powerful force.

No, our free will is taken away. The controller is doing their will on the controlled. So there is still free will, but only the controller has it.

[eventhorizen]

No, our free will is taken away. The controller is doing their will on the controlled. So their is still free will, but only the controller has it.

How do you know it is Free Will in the first place?

Do you have any proof other than heresay?

so you set up a thread just to stroke yourself?

I dont believe in free will so the burden of proof does not lie with me is the most intellectually vapid thing I have EVER seen you say on any of your posts and frankly im stunned, I expected more of you.

I dont believe in you so you must prove yourself to me.

So you disagree with me but you cannot actually argue with me? That is what I was expecting from this thread.

EDIT: I must only prove myself to me.

[Chaigidel]

that is just your opinion, I on the other hand know that I pissed out of the window for absolutely no reason before I read the topic, but it was relevant to my reference of freewill at the time this topic was posted.

so explain how I could piss out the window if there is no free will.

[KodiBurns]

But he was not compelled to do it. He chose to do it of his own free will. Or so I would assume. I have never known an internet forum to have mind control powers.

[Dayman]

But he was not compelled to do it. He chose to do it of his own free will. Or so I would assume. I have never known an internet forum to have mind control powers.

He was influenced to do so based on past influences and events.

[Chaigidel]

no a tree has no will, I am a being of will and I choose to do things, the tree falling has no relevance to me choosing a more difficult method of relieving myself when toilets were available .

we argued all this already and you declared victory and left the thread, im not arguing the same points again until you tell me why I pissed out of the window instead of using a bathroom or even using the first floor window instead of the second.

if you cant decide on a reason why someone would piss out of a window then any arguement you design will be proven to be bollocks because you cant even logically argue the simplest of situations where free will is in question.

[eventhorizen]

no a tree has no will, I am a being of will and I choose to do things

Prove it. You don't seem to understand this thread.

tell me why I pissed out of the window instead of using a bathroom or even using the first floor window instead of the second.

You couldn't wait? You were not taught bladder control? You didn't want to urinate on your floor?

if you cant decide on a reason why someone would piss out of a window then any arguement you design will be proven to be bollocks because you cant even logically argue the simplest of situations where free will is in question.

Read my first post.

I don't believe in Free Will, so the burden of proof to prove Free Will does not lie with me.

[eventhorizen]

Kodiburns, you seem to be missing the very important points of proving the validity of your assumptions.

Your assumption of Free Will is based upon the assumption that you can do something without cause or need, which is based upon the assumption of Free Will.

This is why you fail at logic and reason, even if your repeated spam of completely wrong logic wins the forums.

[gambit]

Kodiburns, you seem to be missing the very important points of proving the validity of your assumptions.

Your assumption of Free Will is based upon the assumption that you can do something without cause or need, which is based upon the assumption of Free Will.

This is why you fail at logic and reason, even if your repeated spam of completely wrong logic wins the forums.

Your definition of free-will isn't correct. Free will is freedom of choice away from physical or divine influence. Cause and need are influences that guide our wills and we can deny them any time I want (Buddha starving himself is a good example, he freed himself of the need to eat, throwing away the fact he is killing himself slowly)

EDIT: I'm getting lost in this chaos, my posts are catching up with my posts.

[KodiBurns]

Kodiburns, you seem to be missing the very important points of proving the validity of your assumptions.

Your assumption of Free Will is based upon the assumption that you can do something without cause or need, which is based upon the assumption of Free Will.

This is why you fail at logic and reason, even if your repeated spam of completely wrong logic wins the forums.

Proof has been given by many and your only response is "Nuh uh!!!!"

You are the one failing.

By the way,

"Proof by assertion is a logical fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction. Sometimes this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted."

You are on a roll with these fallacies son.

[Chaigidel]

so you set up a thread just to stroke yourself?

I dont believe in free will so the burden of proof does not lie with me is the most intellectually vapid thing I have EVER seen you say on any of your posts and frankly im stunned, I expected more of you.

I dont believe in you so you must prove yourself to me.

[Chaigidel]

prove to us first that the question exists

since I dont believe in the question im not logically obligated to in anyway entertain a semblance of validity to anything you say.

[eventhorizen]

prove to us first that the question exists

I cannot, hence it might not.

Prove Free Will.

since I dont believe in the question im not logically obligated to in anyway entertain a semblance of validity to anything you say.

Then stop spamming my thread.

If there is no free will, then how could we have - and why would we need - the concept in the first place?

That is to say, if we have no free will, then presumably there is nothing more to the human mind than the physical brain (which is already difficult enough to believe, but let's run with it for a moment). Our concept that we have free will - it not being true - must be a deception, and the physical brain would be the only agent involved. How could the brain deceive itself? Why would it need to? What is more, the notion of deception implies the possibility of choosing what reality to believe in, which of course entails free will.

To sum up then, if we have no free will, what is the reason for us thinking that we have free will? It seems much less complicated simply to believe that we have free will.

This is a fallacy. What is simple for you to understand is not by default true.

My question as the the evidence supporting Free Will precedes your question as to why an illusion of Free Will should exist.

If you think it exists, prove it or argue it's actual existence, not the conundrum of its absence.

[KodiBurns]

This is a fallacy. What is simple for you to understand is not by default true.

Doesn't Occam's Razor say otherwise?