heavy infantry Pilum vs velites javelins

[Vann7]

I noticed that in the game EB1.0, whenver i use elephants and there are roman velites near they almost kill half of my stack of 36 elephants in just one round..

But when i test my elephants againts late Legionaries ,heavy infantry and they use their pilum againts my elephants (same front), the damage is far lower in just one round.

For me its quite odd ,that a Pilum that is a heavy weight javelin (2 meters long) made in Iron its head , that do less damage (in one round) than small light javelins of velites.. and more when both roman units are about the same in size ,just that one who use the pilum are heavier and are those are soldiers with more combat experience.. in the game the light javelins looks small and to be made on wood? ... After seeing on a TV documentary of ancient weapons what a pilum can do to a big wooden shield..detroy it.. (those used by Romans.. ) , i wonder if it should not be the other way ,more power for pilum (albeit just 1 or 2 rounds) since the pilum was said that could also penetrate heavy armor in the time?

if light skirmishes have many several rounds of javelins ,they should be light enough for them to carry 20 or more of them and also have fast mobility in the battle ground...

Any one have a real photos of how those light javelines are (should be) according to modern recreations?

history in Fun ,but also science.. i would like to see the same level of detail that the game have in historical accuracy ,in physics and damage that weapons should do in the game. For example im somewhat skeptic of the power that stone might have againts elephants. if any that should make them more energic to chase you.... lol

[AqD]

velites get bonus against elephants.

I think the legionaries cannot be given the bonus because it'd apply to their gladius as well. limit of the rtw game.....
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PROBLEMS WITH ZOLOFT

[Watchman]

if light skirmishes have many several rounds of javelins ,they should be light enough for them to carry 20 or more of them and also have fast mobility in the battle ground...

The primary limiter on how many javelins a skirmisher could carry was never weight; it was size. Infantry javelin-men carried them in the off-hand, which usually held a small shield too - the number of shafts, even slender ones such as javelins usually had, that could be held was obviously rather limited.

You may however note that the cavalry skirmishers who carry their missiles in quivers attached to the saddle have rather larger ammunition supply...

Any one have a real photos of how those light javelines are (should be) according to modern recreations?

Those tend to be pretty much the same the world over. Short slender shaft, small narrow tip.

history in Fun ,but also science.. i would like to see the same level of detail that the game have in historical accuracy ,in physics and damage that weapons should do in the game. For example im somewhat skeptic of the power that stone might have againts elephants. if any that should make them more energic to chase you.... lol

If you're referring to slings, I'll have to inform you that you apparently aren't entirely aware of the kinds of damage those deceptively simple weapons do - especially when loaded with oval lead shot. The Romans actually had a specific surgical tool for the express purpose of retrieving such bullets from their targets' bodies...

[Gatto]

Anyway javelins are too effective against elephants. If velites are on a even light slope advantage they can kill almost all the elephants of a unit with a single volley! If elephants hit points are set to 4 (for smaller ones) and 5 (for african bush and indian ones) they are still vulnerable to missiles but suffer only few casualties for each volley and are not so easy to rout.

As for slings these are less effective against them as all other missile weapons. Certainly these weapons in trained hands were deadly against men and horses but against elephants... were so effective too:hmmm:? I don't remember any example of that...

S.V.B.E.E.V.

[Vann7]

Anyway javelins are too effective against elephants. If velites are on a even light slope advantage they can kill almost all the elephants of a unit with a single volley! If elephants hit points are set to 4 (for smaller ones) and 5 (for african bush and indian ones) they are still vulnerable to missiles but suffer only few casualties for each volley and are not so easy to rout.

As for slings these are less effective against them as all other missile weapons. Certainly these weapons in trained hands were deadly against men and horses but against elephants... were so effective too:hmmm:? I don't remember any example of that...

S.V.B.E.E.V.

I find that the game is very hard to balance the units damage or defense .. using medium dificulty settings.. where bonus for damage and protection are best balanced for atacker and defender ..If you tweak the [HP] numbers in the (export_descr_unit) text file.. you can very easily tweak the elephant resistance to javelins.. for example from 1-2 that EB use..
i found that the sweetspot for ELE's versus JAvelins are between 5-6. Any javeline unit with [zero experience] will still be able to kill elephants with same experience , but it will be very minimal.. between 1-3 kills per round no matter the angle. (its not armor). And zero experience archers also kills but half as good ..between 1-2 but in every couple of rounds. I was very happy to "fixing it".. but when i tested elephants againts [zero experience] heavy infantry (greek) with spears... the elephants destroyed 2 full units of heavy weigh infantry ..about 500 hundred soldiers ,without losing a single elephant. :hmmm:

So its very dificult to balance in a way that you are happy with the results againts skirmishers AND infantry at the same time. In the way they are now.. they can run amok after a few kills in just one round of javelins and that is with soldiers with zero experience.. so neither is perfect. Right now using HP 2,2/ and 20+ in their mental aptitude.. still can be destroyed by javelins units.. but it takes more than a single round and still hey also can kill and be killed by medium and heavy infantry. in other words now at least they have some use in the game..

A side note..
I really think that elephants in the game have greatly underestimated not only in its power but in its speed... A charge of an elephant its incredibly powerfull.. have seen an angry elephant hitting what looked a big tree with its head.. and to my surprise ,breaking it (with just one hit) in half. and when they charge ,they can run faster than humans . have been measured to charge up to 40km/h (about 25miles per hour.) this is faster than the world record of any human in short distance .... for nothing it is said that you cant escape an elephant if he really wants to get you . lol