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  1. #1

    Default EU is the new Soviet Union?

    The European Union - the New Soviet?



    Is he crazy or delusional or there is something in it? :hmmm:


    About the guy:

    Vladimir Bukovsky was born in the town of Belebey, Bashkirian ASSR, Russian SFSR (now Bashkortostan), where his family was evacuated from Moscow during World War II. In 1959 he was expelled from his Moscow school for creating and editing an unauthorized magazine.

    From June 1963 to February 1965, Bukovsky was convicted (Article 70-1 of the Penal Code of the RSFSR) and sent to a psikhushka for organizing poetry meetings in the center of Moscow (next to the Mayakovsky monument). The official charge was an attempt to copy anti-Soviet literature, namely The New Class by Milovan Djilas.

    In December 1965 he organised a demonstration at Pushkin Square in Moscow in defence of the writers Andrei Sinyavsky and Yuli Daniel (see Sinyavsky-Daniel trial). Three days before the planned demonstration, Bukovsky was arrested. He was kept in various psykhushkas without any charges till July 1966.

    In January 1967 he was arrested for organizing a demonstration in defence of Alexander Ginzburg, Yuri Galanskov and other dissidents (Article 190-1, 3 years of imprisonment); released in January 1970.

    In 1971, Bukovsky managed to smuggle to the West over 150 pages documenting abuse of psychiatric institutions for political reasons in the Soviet Union. The information galvanized human rights activists worldwide (including inside the country) and was a pretext for his subsequent arrest in the same year. At the trial in January 1972 Bukovsky was accused of slandering the Soviet psychiatry, contacts with foreign journalists and possession and distribution of samizdat (Article 70-1, 7 years of imprisonment plus 5 years in exile).

    Together with a fellow inmate in the prison camp No 35 near Perm, psychiatrist Semyon Gluzman, he coauthored A Manual on Psychiatry for Dissidents[1] in order to help other dissidents to fight abuses of the authorities.

    The fate of Bukovsky and other political prisoners in the Soviet Union, repeatedly brought to attention by Western human rights groups and diplomats, was a cause of embarrassment and irritation for the Soviet authorities.

    December 18, 1976, while imprisoned, Bukovsky was exchanged for former Chilean Communist leader Luis Corvalán. In his autobiographical novel To Build a Castle, Bukovsky describes how he was brought to Switzerland handcuffed. The novel is available online at several sites [2][3][4]

    Since 1976 Bukovsky has lived in Cambridge, England, focusing on neurophysiology and writing. He received a Masters Degree in Biology and has written several books and political essays. In addition to criticizing the Soviet regime, he also picked apart what he calls "Western gullibility", a lack of a tough stand of Western liberalism against Communist abuses.

    In 1983, together with Vladimir Maximov and Eduard Kuznetsov he cofounded and was elected president of international anti-Communist organization Resistance International (Интернационал сопротивления).


    In April 1991 Vladimir Bukovsky visited Moscow for the first time since his forced deportation. In the run-up to the 1991 presidential election Boris Yeltsin's campaign considered Bukovsky as a potential vice-presidential running-mate (other contenders included Galina Starovoitova and Gennady Burbulis). In the end, the vice-presidency was offered to Alexander Rutskoi.

    In 1992, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, President Yeltsin's government invited Bukovsky to serve as an expert to testify at the CPSU trial by Constitutional Court of Russia, where the communists were sueing Yeltsin for banning their party. The respondent's case was that the CPSU itself had been an unconstitutional organisation. To prepare for his testimony, Bukovsky requested and was granted access to a large number of documents from Soviet archives (then reorganized into TsKhSD). Using a small handheld scanner and a laptop computer, he managed to secretly scan many documents (some with high security clearance), including KGB reports to the Central Committee, and smuggle the files to the West.[5] The event that many expected would be another Nuremberg Trial and the beginnings of reconciliation with the Communist past, ended up in half-measures: while the CPSU was found unconstitutional, the communists were allowed to form new parties in the future. Bukovsky expressed his deep disappointment with this in his writings and interviews:
    “ Having failed to finish off conclusively the communist system, we are now in danger of integrating the resulting monster into our world. It may not be called communism anymore, but it retained many of its dangerous characteristics... Until the Nuremberg-style tribunal passes its judgement on all the crimes committed by communism, it is not dead and the war is not over.[6] ”

    It took several years and a team of assistants to compose the scanned pieces together and publish it (see Soviet Archives, collected by Vladimir Bukovsky, prepared for electronic publishing by Julia Zaks and Leonid Chernikhov). The same collection of documents is also massively quoted in Bukovsky's Judgement in Moscow, which was published in 1994, translated to many languages and attracted international attention.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Bukovsky

  2. #2
    Lord Consul's Avatar Armchair intellectual
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    The man stood up against the oppressive power of the Soviets, when not one of his countrymen had the courage to do the same. For that alone, he deserves our respect.

    And he's right. The Union is highly undemocratic in its procedures. That must be changed.
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  3. #3
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    The EU is unelected, as well as rather corrupt like the Soviet union but when compared to the Soviet union it is extremley weak.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  4. #4

    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    The man speaks the truth, Britain joining the EU was the worst choice made since that whole cromwell thing. Norway or Switzerland here I come.

  5. #5
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fianóglach View Post
    The man speaks the truth, Britain joining the EU was the worst choice made since that whole cromwell thing. Norway or Switzerland here I come.
    Well would you rather leave and have the french screw you?
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  6. #6

    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    Well would you rather leave and have the french screw you?
    Ehm yes, as France and Germany are more than enough to make work of an economical, political and social Europe. G-Britain is only in it for the economics. Kinda like parasites. Give little take more, always complaining.

    Oh well. But then again I'm pro-federalist. you dont have to believe me.
    Patronised by Voltaire le Philosophe

    Therefore One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. War is of vital importance to the state and should not be engaged carelessly... - Sun Tzu

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    King Edward III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fianóglach View Post
    The man speaks the truth, Britain joining the EU was the worst choice made since that whole cromwell thing.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    GB isn't in it for the economics. They're in it to continue their 500 year foreign policy.
    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339

  8. #8
    Hansa's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    The EU is unelected, as well as rather corrupt like the Soviet union but when compared to the Soviet union it is extremley weak.
    True to a certain extent, the European parliament is elected, most of the rest is appointed. However its appointed by democratically elected politicians in the different memberstates, so although EU has a democratic deficit its hardly utterly undemocratic. If a European citizen does not like the appointed EU politicians, he can simply elect someone who would appoint different EU politicians.

    As for the corruption, what exactly do you mean?

    And regarding the video, I didn't watch it. The EU being a new Soviet Union is absolutely ridiculous.
    GEIR HASUND!

    By the way, though my avatar might indicate so, I am not a citizen of Germany, though my ancestry have a branch in this great nation.

  9. #9
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansa View Post
    the European parliament is elected
    And almost completely powerless.

    most of the rest is appointed. However its appointed by democratically elected politicians in the different memberstates
    I think you are confused.
    The EU Commission is the real leading body of the EU.
    The EU Commission's president is elected by the EU parliament (that's by far the biggest power the EU parliament has).
    But the rest of the Commissars are simply appointed by the Commission's President.

    There is also a EU council, made up by ministers from the member states (usually not democratically elected, but this varies per member state).

    so although EU has a democratic deficit its hardly utterly undemocratic.
    Just like the USSR.

    If a European citizen does not like the appointed EU politicians, he can simply elect someone who would appoint different EU politicians.
    That's extremely hard in practice, because you don't know in advance who the candidates are, or even who your fraction of choice will choose.

    As for the corruption, what exactly do you mean?
    One major problem with the EU is the fact that nobody knows:
    1) how much money they collect.
    2) how much money they spend.
    3) (therefore) how much money ends up in the pockets of corrupt politicians.

    The EU doesn't even have a body to combat fraud withing in EU. (they do have an anti-fraud body called OLAF, but they only look at fraud fro mmember states, not from the EU's own fraud).

    Also, the one time a big fraud scandal did emerge (in 1998) the EU refused to investigate it.

    So we simply don't know how corrupt the EU is, but the fact that everything is made so obscure is enough to assume the worst.

    One thing I do know:
    Neelie Kroes, the Commissar in charge of "fair competition" is also on the payroll of dozens of large corporations.
    If that isn't an open door to corruption, then I don't know what is.
    Consequently she is now one of the richest people in the Netherlands.

    About the video:
    I think he is right that the EU is like the USSR, in that it's just an way for power hungry politicians to make money and force their ideas down the throats of the plebs.
    It's sad, but we can't do anything bout it.
    It's all part of the endless cycle of building empires, revolting against the oppressors, and building new empires.
    Last edited by Erik; February 20, 2008 at 03:01 PM.



  10. #10

    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    The European Parliament (EP) has gotten more authority with each new treaty. The EP of today is a powerful institute.

    Where does the EP lack in power? Where the EU memberstates refuse to give up sovereignity: internal/justice and external/safety, the 2 other pillars next to the internal market.

    The democratic deficit of the EU has dwindled a lot. If it remains in certain areas that is because of the memberstates themselves.


    We don't know how much money the EU spends? Ehmm... they have a budget. Mail Brussels.


    Comparing the USSR with a policeman on every corner to maintain order... with the EU were we willingly accept Europe... ??? Anyone else sees the difference?
    Patronised by Voltaire le Philosophe

    Therefore One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. War is of vital importance to the state and should not be engaged carelessly... - Sun Tzu

    Orochimaru & Aizen you must Die!! Bankai Dattebayo!!

  11. #11
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by gaius valerius View Post
    The European Parliament (EP) has gotten more authority with each new treaty. The EP of today is a powerful institute.

    Where does the EP lack in power? Where the EU memberstates refuse to give up sovereignity: internal/justice and external/safety, the 2 other pillars next to the internal market.[

    The democratic deficit of the EU has dwindled a lot. If it remains in certain areas that is because of the memberstates themselves.
    The individual member states are far more democratic than the EP.
    So if the EP gains power AT THE EXPENSE of its member states, then that's bad for democracy as a whole.

    We don't know how much money the EU spends? Ehmm... they have a budget. Mail Brussels.
    People tried that, the EU refuses to answer.

    Comparing the USSR with a policeman on every corner to maintain order... with the EU were we willingly accept Europe... ??? Anyone else sees the difference?
    Funny, the first and only time my opinion was asked I distinctly remember voting AGAINST the new treaty, yet they ignored us and signed it anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutsack View Post
    I simply believe it's great that we assist troubled countries in central and eastern Europe. Countries like Poland and Slovakia has been improved. As well as the Baltic countries.
    True.
    But considering the fact that Ireland (=worlds 4th richest country by now) gets more €€€ from the EU than all of Eastern Europe combined, one can only wonder how much quicker we could have helped them recover from Communism if we didn't have the EU and its hugely expensive CAP.
    Last edited by Erik; February 21, 2008 at 03:18 PM.



  12. #12
    Nutsack's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    I simply believe it's great that we assist troubled countries in central and eastern Europe. Countries like Poland and Slovakia has been improved. As well as the Baltic countries.


  13. #13
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    GB isn't in it for the economics. They're in it to continue their 500 year foreign policy.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  14. #14

    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    GB isn't in it for the economics. They're in it to continue their 500 year foreign policy.
    The only reason they wanted to join the EC in the 1960's was because they saw it worked on an economic basis. They refused to join it in 1958 as they were still more fixed on the commonwealth. As soon as they saw the EC worked there fist reaction was: try to create the same thing, being the EFTA. Which was a miserable failure. So they took their second option: apply for membership.

    Thank god the EU is a soicalist human aquarium. I'd prefer the continental or Scandinavian welfare system an infinite times over the beautiful anglosaxon system...
    Patronised by Voltaire le Philosophe

    Therefore One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. War is of vital importance to the state and should not be engaged carelessly... - Sun Tzu

    Orochimaru & Aizen you must Die!! Bankai Dattebayo!!

  15. #15
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    He's spot on. The EU is a socialist human aquarium.

  16. #16
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Britains eurpean policy is the policy I advocate for the US except applying it to the world.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  17. #17
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    And since the Kil-man advocates, it gets rubber-stamped and rocketted through Congress.

  18. #18
    King Edward III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    Britains eurpean policy is the policy I advocate for the US except applying it to the world.
    Screwing the French world wide?
    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339

  19. #19
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    That and keeping the world as disunited as possible!


    Your right Captain they know what happens if they don't
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  20. #20

    Default Re: EU is the new Soviet Union?

    yes but with a free press, free enterprise, constitutional protections on under the law, due process, free and open democratic elections, right to public assembly, freedom of movement, right to education, economic stability, freedom of speech, toilet paper, bananas, and carbonated beverages. I mean except for those things and few others, it's exactly like the Soviet Union.
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