Macedonia Name Controversy Thread

[Icefrisco]

Macedonia is a region in Greece so why is a Slavic country called Macedonia? Is this just another example of nationalism at work?

[Syron]

because the region was part of greater macedonia in the past. since then it hs been the province of other powers like the Ottomans and Serbia. what else are they going to call it?


does it realy matter? i mean in america half the towns and cities are named after ones from around the world throughout history (venice, birmingham, boston, syracuse etc etc)

[Matty_P]

*slaps forehead*

Macedonia is called Macedonia because it's always been called Macedonia, just like Syron said. It's also inaccurate, Makedonija, is what the Macedonians call Macedonia. It's the Slavic, I suppose, pronunciation of Macedonia. At least, using my Polish pronunciation of the word, it sounds very Slavic. I always think that translating a nation's name is like translating a person's name, it shouldn't be done. It is my personal belief that we should address each nation as a citizen of that nation would call it.

Also, why is Poland called Poland when we Poles call Poland Polska?

I hope that's what you wanted to really ask. Otherwise, I'll be cringing waiting for you to post a thread asking, "Why is the sky blue, I mean really. What gives?!"

[Cluny the Scourge]

Also, why is Poland called Poland when we Poles call Poland Polska?

Because it's the land of the Poles.

It's one gigantic plain filled with poles planted in the ground about two metres apart, from border to border. The transit system is based on people jumping between these poles; people go to sleep at night standing-up by getting into a harness tied to one; and the inhabitants of the land (I don't know what they're called) compete every year in a grand tournament to decorate their own personal pole with dead animals of their choice, and the winner gets a free Polish sausage.

[Daovonnaex]

It is my personal belief that we should address each nation as a citizen of that nation would call it.

Ridiculous. I can't even pronounce or spell half of what other people call themselves.

[apostate]

because the region was part of greater macedonia in the past. since then it hs been the province of other powers like the Ottomans and Serbia. what else are they going to call it?

during ancient times that region (the one around Vardar river which) was called Paionia while its northern part was southern Dardania

it became part of Macedonia after it was annexed, but the population was not macedonian

Because they are and have been called Macedonia (Makedonija) basically throughout with two exceptions, when it was called Yugoslavia, and when it was FYR (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Macedonia.

....it was called "makedonija" (as part of yugoslavija/southslavia) just after the end of WWII...
before that people used other names like "vardar banovina" (before the yugoslavia became communist) south serbia (by the serbians), west bulgaria (by the bulgarians)

They have every right to call themselves Macedonia since, as already pointed out, they are historically the area of Macedonia.

-as pointed out that area (save a very small part in the borders with greece) was not part of ancient macedon kingdom before the reign of Philip

-they can call themselves whatever make them feel ok, but here comes a question : since they use the term "macedonian" as an ethnic name, doesnt that deprive the greek population of macedonia (north greece) to call themselves "macedonians" as they do?

The ancient Macedonian ethnic group, to which such illustrious individuals as Alexander the Great and Ptolemy Soter belonged, were really proto-Slavic.

lets hope that was a bad joke

Ultimately self-determination is the only system that makes any sense.

i would agree however there are two cases of self-determination

-first the one that goes along with the status quo

-second the revisionist self determination
...what will happen in the future when atm kids are learnt in school that ancient macedonia was "stolen" by the bad greeks?

of course we must respect self determination, however we should be very very careful with problematic national myths which would bring problems to balkans

example : the greek national myth is about coming from ancient greeks...we speak the language, we live in the places of the hellenic mainland, the temples are there, the theaters are there, the tombs are there everything seems in tact

we have abandoned the "neobyzantine" myth since it was problematic (since we needed Istanbul to follow the myth)
...so everybody in greece is happy with his national myth and doesnt look beyond the borders for recovering "lost homelands"

so the key for a peaceful neighbourhood is to make up clever myths to make people feel safe and good in the lands they own

FYRMacedonia on the other hand will never fill ok in their country since they named it with a name that forces them to look southwards where is located everything that can be identified as "macedonian"....the birthplace of Alexander, the capital cities of ancient macedonia, the monuments, the temples...everything (not to mention their language is a cross of serbian and bulgarian with the latter treating them as ethnic bulgarians)....from that prespective, making up an ethnogenesis of a modern mac ethnicity is a threat to the greece (politics is politics and here the right of self determination should come second)

the best solution to end that pointless dispute is that FYRMacedonia accepts a name like "nova makedonija" (new macedonia) as official naming and i guess the greek government will end its objections (its already fed up and badly needs to close the issue once and for all)

[LSJ]

Today's Macedonians are significantly ethnically different from the Macedonians of ancient Greece, just like many other eastern European nations today, but the name "Makedonija" describes the northernmost region of "Mainland Greece" and there is no logical reason to change it.

[Syron]

during ancient times that region (the one around Vardar river which) was called Paionia while its northern part was southern Dardania

it became part of Macedonia after it was annexed, but the population was not macedonian

Yes, i am aware of that. It was never part of the traditional Macedonian heartlands, however it did become part of macedonia during the macedonian conquests. It's not like it's a name picked at random!

The fact is the region has been called many different things throughout history depending on the imperial power at the time. Macedonia is as good as any. Do you think Serbians would like it if it reverted to it's Ottoman name of South Serbia?

[apostate]

actually a great part of Haimos peninsula was conquered by Macedon...so how would it sound if everybody started naming himself "Macedonia"

fact is that the so called "Slavomacedonians" (actually that is a term used by the serbians in order to de-bulgarize the bulgarians and quasi bulgarians living in Vardar region which Serbia annexed after defeating the Bulgarians in during second balkanic war) were a group of people who in the early 20th cent didnt have a clear ethnic identity (remember for first time on contemporary history the area around Vardar was called "Macedonia" after WWII)....

u know Balkans is an area where wars break out for very funny reasons...in fact way more stupid than a name and an ethnic idenentity
...and FYRMacedonia is not really a stable country, with the 1/3 of the population being ethnic Albos who until recently they had revolted while there are problems with Bulgaria which doesnt recognise a seperate "macedonian" ethnicity as well as the name dispute with greece

that means their government should make that one step back and come in an agreement with greek government (our governement is willing to make steps back as well)

[Earl of Rochester]

Yes, i am aware of that. It was never part of the traditional Macedonian heartlands, however it did become part of macedonia during the macedonian conquests. It's not like it's a name picked at random!

Sure it became part of Macedonia, but so did a large part of the ancient world.

The Slavs of the region are simply stealing the Macedonian identity(one that is rather well known do to the exploits of Alexander) because they don't have one of their own. I mean its simply not the same as places in America for example. Sure there is an Athens, Georgia, a Paris, Kentucky, but nobody is going to see Athens, Georgia and think "hey isn't that the place where democracy was born!?"

I feel bad for the real Macedonians. They are essential having their ancestry stolen by people who simply don't have anything interesting of their own. Its sick.

Honestly I think they should simply call themselves West Bulgaria or something.

[RusskiSoldat]

Also, why is Poland called Poland when we Poles call Poland Polska?

It's called Pol'sha in Russian.

[Matty_P]

Interesting....

[Garbarsardar]

I'm Greek and I think anyone should be able to name anything for what they like. Would anyone mind if the Iraqis called the Green Zone in Baghdad, Manhattan?

Or if the Mexicans called Northern Mexico, California?

How about the Indians calling Bangalore, the new Canary Wharf? (all the jobs are outsourced there anyway...)

[Matty_P]

Well, for the sake of accuracy and respect, calling a nation by it's nationally used name is probably the best bet, but that's just my opinion.

[IndianPrince]

How about the Indians calling Bangalore, the new Canary Wharf? (all the jobs are outsourced there anyway...)

Well we have our own names for Bangalore ... and that's kinda what is happening. LOL ... But who cares !!! Mumbai - Bombay, Calcutta - Kolkatta ... its really the same city isn't it. Whats in a name ???

Prince

[Kanaric]

I refuse to call Germany Deutschland

[Matty_P]

But it sounds so fun!

[Blau&Gruen]

I think behind is more than a buzz of words, but a not enough reflected theory of meaning. If you ask, what is the true name of something, you suppose names contain fix, definition like characteristica, which are supposed to correspond to the object in a sufficentely descriptive manner.

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

I refuse to call Germany Deutschland

Germanen = Spear Men

Deutsch = theodisk = common people

So you prefer land of the spearmen over land of the common people?

I think Macedonia should annex Greece and be called

Big Mac Edonia: Land of the Rising Slav.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Macedonia is a region in Greece so why is a Slavic country called Macedonia? Is this just another example of nationalism at work?

They have every right to call themselves Macedonia since, as already pointed out, they are historically the area of Macedonia. Doesn't mean they have any claims on Greek lands.