Crossbowman not shooting if on walls

**illuminati2025** · February 18, 2008, 10:59 PM

First of course I have to start with the now generic: This is THE finest mod for M2TW, and one of the best for any game I have ever encountered. This is what the game could have, and should have been on release, and I am deeply greatful for your efforts and especially for the dark and exotic atmosphere that your music rework created.

Italian mercenary crossbowman will not shoot if defending from the walls in a siege. Longbow/bow units will shoot without problem. I do not know if any other crossbow unit has this problem.

All missile units that I have encountered in the field work fine.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

**Fenix_120** · February 18, 2008, 11:27 PM

Yes I have, and this seems to be a problem with SS and other mods as well.

Only a few crossbow men will fire at one time, at the most I have had 10 out of 60 Xbows firing when they are on a wall.

**AlfonsoVIII** · February 19, 2008, 09:11 AM

I have the same problem and find them not useful in a KOJ campaign. I would stop building them all together.

**Achilla** · February 19, 2008, 10:22 AM

Crossbows aren't bows.
Crossbows are not supposed to provide accurate and devastating volley fire in parabolic line.
It could be a bug if they acted like bows, currently they don't do what is ok.
If you want to prove me wrong, then give me a challenge and proof that you could fire from musket in parabolic and hit your target 30 meters away in more than 0.00001% tries. Almost same goes for crossbow. It had great accuracy at beginning and slowed down at it's max range. You are not supposed to place crossbowmen on walls and make them act like bow units, which they are not. The issue you all address, is gameplay versus realism. Atm as crossbows are, is ok. And nothing needs to be changed. And trust me, a crossbowman would rather draw his sword and rush at the enemy than load his crossbow and shoot in parabolic, honestly.

**Surfer Joe** · February 19, 2008, 04:38 PM

could you clarify what you mean by "parabolic" ? I think you mean curved but im not sure if thats what you meant... But either way if you meant curved or straight or a parabola or whatever I think it is foolish to say that crossbowmen never shot off walls. I could give you hundreds if not thousands of pictures, references, and archealogical evidence that shows they shot off walls, boats, and just about everything else under the sun. They might not have fired as great a distance as longbows and definitley reloaded slower but that doesnt mean that if they were on walls they would just sit there and not use there bows.

**illuminati2025** · February 19, 2008, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Achilla

Crossbows aren't bows.
Crossbows are not supposed to provide accurate and devastating volley fire in parabolic line.
It could be a bug if they acted like bows, currently they don't do what is ok.
If you want to prove me wrong, then give me a challenge and proof that you could fire from musket in parabolic and hit your target 30 meters away in more than 0.00001% tries. Almost same goes for crossbow. It had great accuracy at beginning and slowed down at it's max range. You are not supposed to place crossbowmen on walls and make them act like bow units, which they are not. The issue you all address, is gameplay versus realism. Atm as crossbows are, is ok. And nothing needs to be changed. And trust me, a crossbowman would rather draw his sword and rush at the enemy than load his crossbow and shoot in parabolic, honestly.

this is a sub-forum to report CTD's and bugs, not to debate gameplay features.

**Achilla** · February 21, 2008, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by illuminati2025

Italian mercenary crossbowman will not shoot if defending from the walls in a siege. Longbow/bow units will shoot without problem. I do not know if any other crossbow unit has this problem.

Originally Posted by illuminati2025

this is a sub-forum to report CTD's and bugs, not to debate gameplay features.

You are funny.
And now look who created this topic. Not me, not Santa, but YOU. And all I said was that first row of crossbowmen on wall will shoot while those behind won't what is completely normal and this is NOT a bug. Reading with understanding ftl ... by the way, before making nasty comments, think a bit. You created this topic to discuss crossbow matter what is ok, but it's not ok to shut some1 mouth saying that "this topic is not related to debate gameplay features" while your entire topic, it's purpose and your first post you wrote completely negate what you just said. No offense taken nor given.

Crossbow units also won't shoot when enemy troops are up close, but sometimes they will if you order them manually. And yes, this is so-called gameplay issue.

**Ermeni** · February 19, 2008, 09:44 PM

x-bows on the field are also quite useless (on some grounds).

though this isn't bc related

**AlfonsoVIII** · February 21, 2008, 04:24 PM

Well, we think Crossbows are bugged, so we have the right to dispute it here.

**green tea** · February 21, 2008, 05:27 PM

Yes, crossbows are "bugged". So are muskets. It is entirely right that a normal player would think (I did) that they should work on walls as they work on the battlefield. But they do not. They are nearly useless on walls. But you posted this in the BC-bugs-area. Have you tried muskets or crossbows in vanilla? There you have the same problem. Like with the cavalry. Try to chase rooting enemies and compare the results to RomeTW. In MTW2, this also does not work as you would expect (and those two games use the same engine). You are right, but it is not a specific BC-bug, it is a MTW2-bug, and one I think no modder could solve until today.

**Strelac** · February 22, 2008, 08:22 AM

Xbows are not bugged; it's the walls. If someone comes up with settlement editing tool, it would be very easy fix.
Until then, xbows will have longer range in 1.1 with adjusted projectile path to allow them to be more efficient in siege battles, i.e. shooting from walls. Parabolic shooting for xbows will not happen.

**Heinz Guderian** · February 22, 2008, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Strelac

Until then, xbows will have longer range in 1.1 with adjusted projectile path to allow them to be more efficient in siege battles, i.e. shooting from walls. Parabolic shooting for xbows will not happen.

That increase in range is just for sieges or for field battles too?

Love Castor Troy's twin 9s as a avatar. Rep+ cos its been ages.

**Rex Inanimatus** · February 22, 2008, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Strelac

Xbows are not bugged; it's the walls. If someone comes up with settlement editing tool, it would be very easy fix.
Until then, xbows will have longer range in 1.1 with adjusted projectile path to allow them to be more efficient in siege battles, i.e. shooting from walls. Parabolic shooting for xbows will not happen.

If i remember correctly the mod TLR has no problems with walls/sieges/fireing from for you modders maybe worthwhile to check that out since the developper left which was a great mourning to its community

**Strelac** · February 23, 2008, 10:27 AM

@rex
xbows fire from walls, but not as successfully compared to archers, because I eliminated the high angle firing. In another words, they will not be able to engage units battering on the door, due to close proximity.
I can't speculate what other mods have done and what people consider 'successful'; although, I pretty well aware of limitations of the missile system in MTW2, and unless they grew their units taller, they just made them shoot parabolic, which is what we are avoiding.

@knight
thx.
Naturally because point of firing from the wall is higher then on ground, their range will be farther then on the field.

**Rex Inanimatus** · February 25, 2008, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Strelac

@rex
xbows fire from walls, but not as successfully compared to archers, because I eliminated the high angle firing. In another words, they will not be able to engage units battering on the door, due to close proximity.
I can't speculate what other mods have done and what people consider 'successful'; although, I pretty well aware of limitations of the missile system in MTW2, and unless they grew their units taller, they just made them shoot parabolic, which is what we are avoiding.

Thanks for enlighten us, you are right, no problems though parabolic misiles, that was a bummer

**redz27m** · April 14, 2008, 11:13 PM

aha so im not the only one!!!! my 1st battle in bc is attacking a settlement(baalbek sp?) and my crossbows just stand doing nothing,wtf? they only fire when the enemy is on level with them and even that only 10 out of the 60 did fire:hmmm:

im palying KOJ, anyone knows if they have archers 'cuz im planing to disband and even outlaw crossbows in campaign, as they are useless in battles

**Galain_Ironhide** · April 15, 2008, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by redz27m

aha so im not the only one!!!! my 1st battle in bc is attacking a settlement(baalbek sp?) and my crossbows just stand doing nothing,wtf? they only fire when the enemy is on level with them and even that only 10 out of the 60 did fire:hmmm:

im palying KOJ, anyone knows if they have archers 'cuz im planing to disband and even outlaw crossbows in campaign, as they are useless in battles

Turkopole Archers (dismounted), my friend.

You recruit them at Fortress Level I think by memory. Excellent units to use, not only for missle but are great in a fight too.

I too had the problem of my Merc Italian xbows not firing on walls or even at walls in some instances. Line of Sight seems to be the problem. I wouldn't go as far as banning them from battles. The Italian Xbow Mercs are also very handy as Melee backup in the field and on the walls.

**Manco** · April 21, 2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by redz27m

aha so im not the only one!!!! my 1st battle in bc is attacking a settlement(baalbek sp?) and my crossbows just stand doing nothing,wtf? they only fire when the enemy is on level with them and even that only 10 out of the 60 did fire:hmmm:

im palying KOJ, anyone knows if they have archers 'cuz im planing to disband and even outlaw crossbows in campaign, as they are useless in battles

you're banning xbows from your game as KoJ? Good luck holding off horse archers then...

edit: damn it, hadn't seen this is a week old