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Thread: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

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    Default Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Mark 16 NIV

    15Jesus said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

    16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

    18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
    So faithful Christians are supposed to be resistant toward poison and have magical healing ability? Or I misunderstand the verses?


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

    "Feminists are silent when the bills arrive." -- Aetius

    "Women have made a pact with the devil — in return for the promise of exquisite beauty, their window to this world of lavish male attention is woefully brief." -- Some Guy

  2. #2
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    So faithful Christians are supposed to be resistant toward poison and have magical healing ability? Or I misunderstand the verses?
    That makes Jesus like common people... So I say "no".:hmmm:

  3. #3
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    So faithful Christians are supposed to be resistant toward poison and have magical healing ability? Or I misunderstand the verses?
    Some saints have had this, although none come to mind at the moment, sorry.

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    Nuclear's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    Some saints have had this, although none come to mind at the moment, sorry.
    Not sure of the name but

    Padro Pia.
    Prejudice is 100% ignorance, 100% immaturity and therefore 200% stupidity.

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    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear View Post
    Not sure of the name but

    Padro Pia.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ight=padre+pio

  6. #6
    Nuclear's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    AH, that's the way to spell it, thanks, I would rep, but not old enough account T_T
    Prejudice is 100% ignorance, 100% immaturity and therefore 200% stupidity.

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    A complicated question. Saints surely had many peculiar "abilities", allegedly.

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    The Good's Avatar the Bad and the Ugly
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    It is possible for true believers to cast out demons from a posessed person. Jesus even encourages believers to do this. I believe this verse would be found in the Book of Matthew. I check tomorrow though, I need some sleep. Midnight where I am.


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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    I assure you, from what I know, however true believer you are, you don't want to face a true demon.

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    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    No, meeting Satan is never any fun.

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    No, meeting Satan is never any fun.
    If Satan promises 72 porn stars for me once I help him conquer Heaven, that may be a nice meeting...:hmmm:

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    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    If Satan promises 72 porn stars for me once I help him conquer Heaven, that may be a nice meeting...:hmmm:
    I can confirm that you do not want to dabble in this.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    A complicated question. Saints surely had many peculiar "abilities", allegedly.
    particularly with small boys

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

  14. #14
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    The fact is, you will never get them. But that is not what they do, I'm afraid.

  15. #15
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    An interesting assertion. What exactly makes you think those were saints?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    People do not have supernatural powers, especially not those given to them by mythological creatures.

  17. #17
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Interesting. Now, I would suggest that perhaps you lack informations as to several interesting things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau

    Lourdes Medical Bureau
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    The Lourdes Medical Bureau is a medical organisation based in Lourdes in France. It as an official organisation within the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, but is administrated and run only by doctors. Its most celebrated function is the medical investigation of apparent cures associated with the shrine of Lourdes.

    The term Medical Bureau is also given to a special meeting of doctors, which may be called to investigate such claims of inexplicable healing.



    Investigation of apparent cures
    Approximately 35 claims per year are brought to the attention of the Lourdes Medical Bureau. Most of these are dismissed quickly. Three to five each year are investigated more thoroughly, by drawing up a Medical Bureau, comprising any doctors who were present in Lourdes at the time the apparent cure took place (this is the rationale for all members to notify the bureau of their visits to Lourdes).

    The Medical Bureau investigates the claim, by examining the patient, the casenotes, and any test results (which can include biopsies, X-rays, CT scans, blood test results, and so on).

    If this conference decides that further investigation is warranted, the case is referred to the International Lourdes Medical Committee (abbreviated in French to CMIL), which is an international panel of about twenty experts in various medical disciplines from around the world (and of different religious beliefs). CMIL meets annually. A full investigation requires that one of its members investigates every detail of the case in question, and immerses him/herself in the literature around that condition to ensure that up-to-date academic knowledge is applied to the decision. This investigator may also consult with other colleagues about the case.

    This information is presented at a CMIL meeting. Also present at the meeting are the head of the Lourdes Medical Bureau and the Bishop of Tarbes and Lourdes (currently this is Jacques Perrier). The cured subject is not normally present.

    For a cure to be recognised as medically inexplicable, certain facts require to be established:

    The original diagnosis must be verified and confirmed beyond doubt
    The diagnosis must be regarded as "incurable" with current means (although ongoing treatments do not disqualify the cure)
    The cure must happen in association with a visit to Lourdes, typically while in Lourdes or in the vicinity of the shrine itself (although drinking or bathing in the water are not required)
    The cure must be immediate (rapid resolution of symptoms and signs of the illness)
    The cure must be complete (with no residual impairment or deficit)
    The cure must be permanent (with no recurrence)
    CMIL is not entitled to pronounce a cure "miraculous"; this must be done by the Church. The bureau may only pronounce that a cure is "medically inexplicable". A full investigation takes a minimum of five years (in order to ensure that the cure is permanent), and may take as long as ten or twelve years. It is recognised that, in rare cases, even advanced malignant disease or severe infection may spontaneously resolve.

    The CMIL board votes on each case presented. A two-thirds majority is required for CMIL to pronounce a cure "inexplicable".

    If CMIL decides a cure is medically inexplicable, the case is referred to the Bishop of the diocese where the cured subject lives. It is he who, in consultation with his own experts and with the Vatican, makes the decision about whether a cure is "miraculous". He may, for whatever reason, refute the claim.

    Jacques Perrier, the Bishop of Tarbes and Lourdes, made a statement concerning the question of miracles in Lourdes. The bishop wishes to have a new approach to cures in Lourdes, especially concerning the different stages of recognising them. In his words: “For the Church, as well as for the believer, a pilgrimage to Mary is more than a journey to a miracle. It is a journey of love, of prayer and of the suffering community.” [2]

    Occasionally cases are dismissed by the Medical Bureau but still attain a level of fame and notoriety. One example is that of Jack Traynor.


    [edit] Notable cases

    [edit] Jeanne Fretel
    Visited Lourdes: 10 May 1948.

    Age 31, a student nurse from Rennes, France. Tubercular peritonitis with complications for seven years, extreme emaciation and oscillating fever. Comatose when brought to Lourdes, was given a tiny fragment of the Eucharist and awoke. Reported being "instantly and permanently cured" later that night while lying in her wheelchair beside the spring. She had not yet bathed in or drunk the water. Her cure was recognised officially on 11 November 1950.


    [edit] Brother Léo Schwager
    Visited Lourdes: 30 April 1952.

    Age 28, from Fribourg, Switzerland. Multiple sclerosis for five years. His cure was recognised on 18 December 1960.


    [edit] Alice Couteault, born Alice Gourdon
    Visited Lourdes: 15 May 1952.

    Age 34, from Bouille-Loretz, France. Multiple sclerosis for three years. Her cure was recognised on 16 July 1956.


    [edit] Marie Bigot
    Visited Lourdes: 8 October 1953 and 10 October 1954.

    Age 32, from La Richardais, France. Arachnoiditis of posterior fossa (blindness, deafness, hemiplegia). Her cure was recognised on 15 August 1956.


    [edit] Ginette Nouvel, born Ginette Fabre
    Visited Lourdes: 21 September 1954.

    Age 26, from Carmaux, France. Budd-Chiari syndrome (supra-hepatic venous thrombosis). Her cure was recognised on 31 May 1963.


    [edit] Elisa Aloi, later Elisa Varcalli
    Visited Lourdes: 5 June 1958.

    Age 27, from Patti, Italy. Tuberculous osteoarthritis with fistulae at multiple sites in the right leg. Her cure was recognised on 26 May 1965.


    [edit] Juliette Tamburini
    Visited Lourdes: 17 July 1959.

    Age 22, from Marseilles, France. Femoral osteoperiostitis with fistulae, epistaxis, for ten years. Her cure was recognised on 11 May 1965.


    [edit] Vittorio Micheli
    Visited Lourdes: 1 June 1963.

    Age 23, from Scurelle, Italy. Sarcoma (cancer) of pelvis; tumour so large that his left thigh became loose from the socket, leaving his left leg limp and paralysed. After taking the waters, he was free of pain and could walk. By February 1964 the tumour was gone, the hip joint had recalcified, and he returned to a normal life. His cure was recognized on 26 May 1976.


    [edit] Serge Perrin
    Visited Lourdes: 1 May 1970.

    Age 41, from Lion D'Angers, France. Recurrent right hemiplegia, with ocular lesions, due to bilateral carotid artery disorders. Symptoms, which included headache, impaired speech and vision, and partial right-side paralysis began without warning in February 1964. During the next six years he became wheelchair-confined, and nearly blind. While on pilgrimage to Lourdes in April 1970, he felt a sudden warmth from head to toe, his vision returned, and he was able to walk unaided. His cure was recognised on 17 June 1978.


    [edit] Delizia Cirolli, later Delizia Costa
    Visited Lourdes: 24 December 1976.

    Age 12, from Paterno, Italy. Ewing's sarcoma of right knee. Offered amputation by her doctors, her mother refused and took her to Lourdes instead. On returning to Italy, her tumour rapidly regressed until no remaining evidence existed, although it left her tibia angulated, which required an operation (osteotomy) to correct. Her cure was recognised on 28 June 1989. She went on to become a nurse.


    [edit] Jean-Pierre Bély
    Visited Lourdes: 9 October 1987.

    Age 51, French. Multiple sclerosis. His cure was recognised on 9 February 1999.


    [edit] Patrick Theillier
    Dr. Patrick Theillier is the twelfth doctor to head the Lourdes Medical Bureau. He received his medical degree from Lille in 1964.
    Certainty? No. On either side.

    By the way, on the narrative, anecdotal side, there would be much more to say.

  18. #18
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    It also depends on what one defines as demons, sickness, speaking in tongues, etc..
    There's far to much black and white in these debates, with absence of greyscale.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    Interesting. Now, I would suggest that perhaps you lack informations as to several interesting things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau



    Certainty? No. On either side.

    By the way, on the narrative, anecdotal side, there would be much more to say.


    Shall we not waste time with shamenism, Ummon?

  20. #20
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: Faithful Christians are Resistant to Poison And Have Healing Power

    That is not a scientific graph

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