PRO DEO ET REGE 1.0 QUESTIONS & SUGGESTIONS

[aarronpeake]

i have to voice my support of the finances in this mod!! i like how much you have to really think about what your spending your hard earned florins on....

so i would have to say leave this as it makes the whole game more realistic and tense. Because your never sure you'll have the money to wage wars, so i only do if there is no other choice!!

[Emperor Basil]

yeah, the mines are a bit of a money-pit so to speak. I haven't played vanilla in a looooooooooooooong time (maybe over a year?). How much do they generate per turn?

On another note, my Georgian campaign bit the dust as I noticed a few small bugs that I just had to go fix. Now I'm not sure what faction to start up a new campaign as...I'm thinking the Turks and I'm gonna make it a goal to destroy every Crusader army marching through my lands. Should be easy too as Horse Archers rule!

I can't remember now...... 200 for the first level and then 500 for the second?

I had a thought on merchants, although I'm not sure how possible it is. Following on from someone else's idea to make merchants immortal (i.e. act as a business rather than an individual), couldn't you make it so merchants are cheaper and more numerous but generate less income per merchant. This would mean you have the possibility of harnessing all your resources in your (or someone else's) domains. It would only really work though if the merchants were immortal otherwise it would be micro-manage overkill. I always look at the resources on the map going to waste and wishing their were a horde merchants to make money out of them.
Just an idea.

[Gigantus]

In my opinion that will be asking for a merchant war. Low costs will have the AI spam the map with them and as a result there will be a constant battle for the most lucrative spots.
It used to really put me off when I had walked my merchant all the way from Iberia to Konstantinopel, grab a nice spot there, only to have an AI Uebermerchant zap my guy right away. Always gave me the feeling that the Fog of War doesn't exist for these guys. And they don't just go for you because of the nice spot - somehow one of my guys stopped on the wood resource there (he was on his way to Antioch) and ZAP he was gone.

[Sanskrit_Bandit]

I was wondering what is planned next for the mod.
if further faction tweaking is needed i would like to help in making poland more historically accurate. a mod with a proper representation of poland is long overdue
if need be i offer you my services if you were to want to use them

[Demokritos]

The fiscal challenge may vary from faction to faction in this mod (as in mods in general), being just right in some cases, and harder in others. Have you guys tried the Danish campaign on VH/VH and concentrating on taking Scandinavia first, while keeping some defence worth mentioning in the south against possible HRE aggression (and not blitzing for trade agreements)? That's no ordinary challenge. I'm quite experienced in TW games and mods, but my first attempt here failed miserably, when the realm had grown to about ten regions, for then the budget had gone irrevocably red (my army was too weak to conquer and hold a sufficient number of new settlements to come out of the trouble). And this was with a focus on improving the economy.
I'm not saying that you should change anything for everybody. I just wanted some tools for a little personal tweak and now I got them. I have not made up my mind on how to use them yet. That's all.

@Socal infidel - Liked what the lasso tool can do for menus?

[Lord_Phan]

In my opinion that will be asking for a merchant war. Low costs will have the AI spam the map with them and as a result there will be a constant battle for the most lucrative spots.
It used to really put me off when I had walked my merchant all the way from Iberia to Konstantinopel, grab a nice spot there, only to have an AI Uebermerchant zap my guy right away. Always gave me the feeling that the Fog of War doesn't exist for these guys. And they don't just go for you because of the nice spot - somehow one of my guys stopped on the wood resource there (he was on his way to Antioch) and ZAP he was gone.

Agreed, don't touch the merchants please. Don't make them immortal, and don't make a spam. Or at least if you do change them, let us know how to change them back

[Emperor Basil]

In my opinion that will be asking for a merchant war. Low costs will have the AI spam the map with them and as a result there will be a constant battle for the most lucrative spots.
It used to really put me off when I had walked my merchant all the way from Iberia to Konstantinopel, grab a nice spot there, only to have an AI Uebermerchant zap my guy right away. Always gave me the feeling that the Fog of War doesn't exist for these guys. And they don't just go for you because of the nice spot - somehow one of my guys stopped on the wood resource there (he was on his way to Antioch) and ZAP he was gone.

Aye that is annoying. Twas just a thought. Although I have played a mod (can't remember which one) where the merchants only cost 100 florins and that didn't seem to create a merchant war. It just made them more lucrative and worth the hassle of getting. In vanilla I never bothered with merchants because they never produced enough and any I did get were zapped by the AI.

[AnthoniusII]

Merchants MUST cost only 100 coins!!
In all mods i have played i suffered trade wars and i had more income to support expantion!!!
Merchants are valueable as well as all the other agents in the game!!!
For examble :have you try to create biological war to your enemies?
Think what you could do and who you should reqruit for such a war!!!

[Socal_infidel]

I can't remember now...... 200 for the first level and then 500 for the second?

Hmm. That sounds about right. I tweaked the amount generated from mining in my Turk campaign I started last night. And I'm getting 180 per turn from them. Which by my math, means they will have returned the initial investment in roughly 13 years. After that they start turning a profit. Sounds about right to me.

In my opinion that will be asking for a merchant war. Low costs will have the AI spam the map with them and as a result there will be a constant battle for the most lucrative spots.
It used to really put me off when I had walked my merchant all the way from Iberia to Konstantinopel, grab a nice spot there, only to have an AI Uebermerchant zap my guy right away. Always gave me the feeling that the Fog of War doesn't exist for these guys. And they don't just go for you because of the nice spot - somehow one of my guys stopped on the wood resource there (he was on his way to Antioch) and ZAP he was gone.

I forget how we have it now gigantus. Did we lower the caps on the number of merchants? I thought we had a one merchant per market limit until the third-level market. If that's the case, maybe we could lower the merchant cost just a little?

Personally, I hate micromanaging merchants. And I never try to acquire someone else's assets.

I dunno though, merchants cost around 500 as it now stands. Assume I get a 30 year old merchant through recruitment. Assume he lives for 35 years. There's a silk resource outside Edessa that I have a merchant camped out on since I started my Turk campaign. He started out making 150 per turn on it. Assuming no experience gained, he's going to generate around 10000 florins over the course of his life.

Less initial cost and wage of 100 florins per year, he's brought in 6000 florins for you assuming no experience gained. Is that too little? I'm asking. I'm not sure.

I was wondering what is planned next for the mod.
if further faction tweaking is needed i would like to help in making poland more historically accurate. a mod with a proper representation of poland is long overdue
if need be i offer you my services if you were to want to use them

Well next release offers two new factions (with the possibility for a third):

1. Toulouse
2. Kypchaks

After that I still have another two or three faction slots remaining. But I honestly haven't decided which other factions to include.

After that I eventually plan on returning to the vanilla factions to rework them.

The good thing is Empire Total War holds very little interest for me. I hate that era. So I'll probably still be plugging along with PDER at that point...

The fiscal challenge may vary from faction to faction in this mod (as in mods in general), being just right in some cases, and harder in others. Have you guys tried the Danish campaign on VH/VH and concentrating on taking Scandinavia first, while keeping some defence worth mentioning in the south against possible HRE aggression (and not blitzing for trade agreements)? That's no ordinary challenge. I'm quite experienced in TW games and mods, but my first attempt here failed miserably, when the realm had grown to about ten regions, for then the budget had gone irrevocably red (my army was too weak to conquer and hold a sufficient number of new settlements to come out of the trouble). And this was with a focus on improving the economy.
I'm not saying that you should change anything for everybody. I just wanted some tools for a little personal tweak and now I got them. I have not made up my mind on how to use them yet. That's all.

@Socal infidel - Liked what the lasso tool can do for menus?

Well, there's a bug I caught related to markets that may be responsible for some of the economic stranglehold. Maybe that'll improve things for the Danes.

Although, I like that some factions stand no chance. That's just me personally though. And yeah, if I was playing them, I'd want to tweak things to for them.

I've always said, not all factions are created equal. On the battlefield, all factions should stand on equal footing. But in the campaign, some factions should just have it rough.

Like the Hayasdan in EB 1.0. I abandoned three campaigns of theirs. The Grey Death just starts pouring into Armenia.

Merchants MUST cost only 100 coins!!
In all mods i have played i suffered trade wars and i had more income to support expantion!!!
Merchants are valueable as well as all the other agents in the game!!!
For examble :have you try to create biological war to your enemies?
Think what you could do and who you should reqruit for such a war!!!

Biological warfare! Ha! That's mean! I assume you use your infected spies to do your dirty work

[HannibalExMachina]

a sugg for venice:
Im not very amused how the land"masses" owned by venice are represented in Vanilla and most mods. Is there any chance that you will reduce the size of the venice & dalmatian provinces? Would be the best if the province would only include the capital and some hinterland (in dalmatia also the islands oc). The space left could be given to the croatia and serbia provinces. In italy, you could give some landspace to bavaria, or create a verona province.
Just a minor point, but should be considered.

[Gigantus]

I forget how we have it now gigantus. Did we lower the caps on the number of merchants? I thought we had a one merchant per market limit until the third-level market. If that's the case, maybe we could lower the merchant cost just a little?

As far as I remember we put the availability for the second merchant up. Instead of having two merchants at market level its only one. The second one is available one or two levels later.
But it wouldn't hurt to reduce the cost somewhat. Say down to 250.

[AnthoniusII]

Biological warfare! Ha! That's mean! I assume you use your infected spies to do your dirty work[/quote]

[Emperor Basil]

Personally, I hate micromanaging merchants. And I never try to acquire someone else's assets.

So do I but at the same time I quite like them.

I dunno though, merchants cost around 500 as it now stands. Assume I get a 30 year old merchant through recruitment. Assume he lives for 35 years. There's a silk resource outside Edessa that I have a merchant camped out on since I started my Turk campaign. He started out making 150 per turn on it. Assuming no experience gained, he's going to generate around 10000 florins over the course of his life.

Less initial cost and wage of 100 florins per year, he's brought in 6000 florins for you assuming no experience gained. Is that too little? I'm asking. I'm not sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong but 150 per turn is near the top end of resources in value terms. Many resources just aren't worth harnessing.
Take a resource that generates 50 per turn. On the basis you used above you'd only really expect to receive about 4000 florins in the course of his life. Therefore he hasn't made any profit and would probably in fact lose money.


Also I'm always disappointed by the role of Venice and Genoa/Milan. They don't have that emphasis on economic prosperity that these factions should have. Could these factions receive a great number of merchants or something?

[AnthoniusII]

French heraldic...

[Gigantus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but 150 per turn is near the top end of resources in value terms. Many resources just aren't worth harnessing.
Take a resource that generates 50 per turn. On the basis you used above you'd only really expect to receive about 4000 florins in the course of his life. Therefore he hasn't made any profit and would probably in fact lose money.

You forgot the multiplier of the merchant's experience. I have got merchants with 8 experience that collect 1000 florins a turn sitting on those lovely double resources like honey at Konstantinopel.

[AnthoniusII]

You forgot the multiplier of the merchant's experience. I have got merchants with 8 experience that collect 1000 florins a turn sitting on those lovely double resources like honey at Konstantinopel.

Add silk there too...silk production existed since Jiustinianus emperor!

[Gigantus]

Add silk there too...silk production existed since Jiustinianus emperor!

Silk is just next door, across the Bosporus.

[aarronpeake]

i have got two merchants as egypt on the gold ull experiance getting over 2000 florins each i think its cool that it takes time for your merchants to gain money

[AnthoniusII]

Army rosters...making things simple!

After the byz roster discution i had an idea that will make any army's roster simble and more accurate...
I have started the french campaign and realised that the mod continues the vanilla had.
Having peasant and millitia crossbowmen is not historical...
For examble there could be only one crossbow unit and will not only will have access to heavier armor through armouries but also to better arrows!
The same way would not be nessesary to have peasant bowmen and millitia ones in the byz roster...
Making the list simplier will allow the team to use the era system the mod has from the TLR more correctly add units right from the correct era!
Units that could be one would be:
Crossbowmen(not the pavisse ones)
sergeants(mounted and not)
Haldeviar men
Pikemen
etc....

[xeryx]

In my opinion that will be asking for a merchant war. Low costs will have the AI spam the map with them and as a result there will be a constant battle for the most lucrative spots.
It used to really put me off when I had walked my merchant all the way from Iberia to Konstantinopel, grab a nice spot there, only to have an AI Uebermerchant zap my guy right away. Always gave me the feeling that the Fog of War doesn't exist for these guys. And they don't just go for you because of the nice spot - somehow one of my guys stopped on the wood resource there (he was on his way to Antioch) and ZAP he was gone.

You are correct sir, the Merchants do not recognize the FOW. There are a couple of things that can be modded though to lower the chances of them actually attacking you.