Why Communism not Fascism?

[The Super Pope]

Why is it acceptable to claim to be communist but not facist?

[Gunslinger-52]

Because in Communism at least the ideal is worth a damn. Though completely unworkable.

[Hound_Of_Culann]

Communism = all workers of the world are equal and should rule the world
fascism = all people of nation X are better than everyone else and should rule the world

[Cpt_Rua]

Now that's a good question because I don't know the answer neither. In our so-called “democratic” society if the comunist parties are allowed why aren't the fascist parties, right? If everyone is free to choose a extremist left-wing party it isn't logical to deny choosing the opposite wing, however extremist it is.


And I think it can be because of many reasons. For example in countries like mine, which had a fascist government, it is forbidden by the constitution to exist oficial fascist parties (at least this happens in mine i don't know about the others). Why? I don't no. Maybe it's because of fear. Fear of it coming again. Fear of lack of freedom. Fear by the communist parties to have their rivals active and have a strong opposition or fear by the communists to have someone who doesn't agree with them and so makes them weak. Fear by the common people of being poor and victims of injustice as they were under fascist government (as the communists say). That is a reason: fear.


What else? Lack of information or wrong information. People deny the fascist parties because they´re not informed about it. And adding it to the fear genneraly many people think like this: “You are fascist? You're nazi” or worst: “You´re right-winded? You´re nazi” which obviously is wrong. Nazism is a brunch of fascism and contrarly of what many people say they aren't the same thing. But all this because of mesinformation because if people learn it or get informed about it maybe they would follow it or at least accept it because fascism doesn't means war, extermination camps, poverty, lack of freedom or other evil things. And certaintly its not

fascism = all people of nation X are better than everyone else and should rule the world

If we see things clearly if fascism is not accepted in our culture communism has a little blame on it because as a communist, socialist, left winded government which is the best way to prevent the fascists from coming or prevent they take away from they government? Denying fascist parties of course. This is actually what happens in my country. Maybe in other countries the reasons are different but that I don't know (or maybe they´re the same. If you like read the last paragraph with “democratics” instead of “communists”). However the today's “fascists”, which by my point of view they're not real fascist, have their blame too. Why? Are we really allow someone who promotes violence and racism likes the neo-nazis? Or someone who says: “Immigrants are stealing your jobs. Let´s kick them out of our country” or “we are the best. The others nations sucks”. Those people corrupt the ideals of fascism worst than the communits. No wonder fascism it's not accepted if people think that fascism is this.


What makes me think if they were accepted, if fascist parties were allowed, maybe this people weren't violent or racist and defended the truly fascist ways.

[Dr. Croccer]

Fascism doesn't exactly have a good history, neither does Communism but at least a somewhat better one.

[Fianóglach]

Fascism is misunderstood, because people equate fascism with nazi, and that's the end of it. REAL Fascism just like REAL Communism, has nothign to do with Nazis or Soviets. Fascism does not preach that the Nation exists to conquer all others, that's a load of bollocks. Just because people are too ignorant to read into subjects, does not make them evil. Portugal was fascist until the 70s, they never invaded another country or acted aggressive in the least.

[gaius valerius]

Fascism is misunderstood, because people equate fascism with nazi, and that's the end of it. REAL Fascism just like REAL Communism, has nothign to do with Nazis or Soviets. Fascism does not preach that the Nation exists to conquer all others, that's a load of bollocks. Just because people are too ignorant to read into subjects, does not make them evil. Portugal was fascist until the 70s, they never invaded another country or acted aggressive in the least.

Seems you're pretty biased about fascism as well then. Looking at pre-nazi Italy of the 1920's I still see a state of terror and opression... The 'expansion' argument has little to do with the whole thing.

Communism as a theory is very nice, but political adaptations never turned out quite like it and were perversions. Fascim however is in its very essence perverted.



And looking deeper into it, nazism had a lot more in common with communism than you think. The former was actually pretty ehm 'left' in certain ways (apart from the whole racial thing).

[Fianóglach]

Seems you're pretty biased about fascism as well then. Looking at pre-nazi Italy of the 1920's I still see a state of terror and opression... The 'expansion' argument has little to do with the whole thing.

Communism as a theory is very nice, but political adaptations never turned out quite like it and were perversions. Fascim however is in its very essence perverted.

And looking deeper into it, nazism had a lot more in common with communism than you think. The former was actually pretty ehm 'left' in certain ways (apart from the whole racial thing).

I think you misunderstood me. I said Nazism has nothing to do with fascism. Hitler borrowed some parts of fascism, but I would never call Nazi Germany Fascist. Nor would I call Mussolini's Italy 'Nazi'. I think you're a bit confused as to the difference between Fascist and Nazi.

What do you mean by pre-Nazi Italy? The only time Nazis ruled Italy was from 1943-1945 under the Italian Social Republic puppet government.

Just because Mussolini was a weak leader and eventually caved to Hitler's demands when he realised that he was not the superior power in the Axis. That speaks nothing of the actual political ideology of Fascism, as was in operation from 1922-1940 before Mussolini effectively got out politicked by Hitler.

This discussion is not about Nazism, it's about Fascism. The arguement that Nazism is similiar to Communism is valid, just not in this thread.

[gaius valerius]

I think you misunderstood me. I said Nazism has nothing to do with fascism. Hitler borrowed some parts of fascism, but I would never call Nazi Germany Fascist. Nor would I call Mussolini's Italy 'Nazi'. I think you're a bit confused as to the difference between Fascist and Nazi..

I'm not confused about the difference between the two. Sorry I must have misread, I didn't intend to compare nazism and fascism.

What do you mean by pre-Nazi Italy? The only time Nazis ruled Italy was from 1943-1945 under the Italian Social Republic puppet government. .

I was referring to the factthat fascism started to blossom before nazism. That's all.

Just because Mussolini was a weak leader and eventually caved to Hitler's demands when he realised that he was not the superior power in the Axis. That speaks nothing of the actual political ideology of Fascism, as was in operation from 1922-1940 before Mussolini effectively got out politicked by Hitler..

True, the weakwilled Mussoline got influenced by nazi-ideology and even started an antisemitic discours, which wasn't understood by the party. The racial discours was rather strange to fascism.

This discussion is not about Nazism, it's about Fascism. The arguement that Nazism is similiar to Communism is valid, just not in this thread.

You yourself mentioned nazism Fascism does glorify violence (it cleanses the spirit etc), in that it is no different from nazism. I didn't mean much more with it.

[Ludicus]

Portugal was fascist until the 70s, they never invaded another country or acted aggressive in the least.

Salazar regime was dictatorial, his philosophy was based around the Catholic Social doctrine. The National Union was formed as an organization to support the regime itself, and completely lacking any ideology independent of the regime. In 1934 Salazar banned the National Syndicalist Party (Rolão Preto), a fascist party.Given the restorational tendence of his rule (Catholic, regionalist, monarchist, agrarian) in contrast to the revolutionary re-structuring of the Italian society, it could be argued if his government can be truly considered fascist.
This is my opinion, and also the opinion of some Social Historians in Portugal (Pulido Valente and others)

[gaius valerius]

Some ppl say 3/4 of Europe in 1938 was fascist. This is wrong. Most regimes were dictatorships, mostly the catholic conservatives. Fascism and Nazism were later flavours imported by the war.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Some ppl say 3/4 of Europe in 1938 was fascist. This is wrong. Most regimes were dictatorships, mostly the catholic conservatives. Fascism and Nazism were later flavours imported by the war.

Most were dictatorships, but weren't fascist? How so?

[Dr. Croccer]

Agree with you. But you can't think that other people have already done that as well. People will associate Fascism with Nazism in the same way people associate Socialism with Communism.

[MaximiIian]

Why is it acceptable to claim to be communist but not facist?

It's acceptable to claim to be a fascist. It's just socially uncouth to do so, and often you are looked on as a weirdo.
As long as one doesn't integrate racism, classism, or other supremacist ideologies into fascism...it's a practical, workable government model.
The trouble is, it's often too authoritarian for progressive, egalitarian political folks to touch. So, all too often, fascists tend to be extreme reactionaries, racists, ethnic supremacists, or ultra-religious nuts.

Communism is, also, a lot more utopian and positive in its outlook towards the future. Communism says, "let's unite and progress to a point where we won't need the state or class divisions for the benefit of collective society."
Whereas, fascism says, "let's unite and make the state more powerful to curb human behaviour for the benefit of collective society."
It's very much akin to the Jedi-Sith dialectic.

[Eranshahr]

What I see making communism more acceptable of the two is

Communism allows labour unions and collective agreements.
facism opposes them.
Conclusion- Communism values the worker. Facism destroyes the worker while she is working.


And as the rest have said. Communism wants to reach utopia. facism wants to reach X's strenght above the others.

[The Super Pope]

And as the rest have said. Communism wants to reach utopia. facism wants to reach X's strenght above the others.

Surely that's a good thing in a national government?

[Erik]

Communism allows labour unions and collective agreements.
facism opposes them.

That's not true.
In fact: labor unions form some of the "fasci" (=factions) that make up the fascist leadership (the other "fasci" being big corporations and the military).

Fascism is nothing more than a government ruled by corporate, military, and workers factions who are supposed to cooperate for the greater benefit of their society.
It's actually not such a bad idea, in theory (like communism, it things only go bad when theory become practice).

As stated before, Fascism has just been equated to Nazism with the greater public, and that's why it's so difficult to talk about it.

[Sidmen]

Fascism is totalitarianism on steroids, I'm not a fan of the state dictating terms to me.

[Kritias]

In theory, both doctrines have their uses. As the Super Pope said, Fascism promotes national strength through unity, something that in national states is a good thing(more so ever during crisis periods) while Communism tries to provide not virtual but objective equality between the people, something that all would agree that it's a good thing. However, the pros of both doctrines end in theory: we all have witnessed how Communism and most importantly fascism were practiced during the last century.

On the question asked now, I believe that both regimes should be shunned away equally due to reasons spoken already and the simpler reason that both communism and fascism are dictatorships in disguise and we all know how these things end up. The only reason Communism isn't turned down like Fascism, is because the Commies had the luck to lack a figure like Hitler (they had an equally bad guy named Stalin but for a strange reason, he is not regarded as equal...)

[KodiBurns]

Communism tries to provide not virtual but objective equality between the people, something that all would agree that it's a good thing.

Thats a very broad generalization as most fascists and certainly others would probably not agree.