News update: Faction list amendment

[Hengest]

Faction List

We have three factions which we are discussing to fill the last faction slot. As you can see, we intend to add a non-Catholic faction.

Islam
1 Egypt ( Ayyubid, Fatumid, Mamluk dynasties)
2 Moors (Amoravid, Almohad, Benemarin dynasties)
3 Sultanate of Rum (Seljuk Turks)
***possible final addition****Abbasids

Orthodox
4 Byzantine Empire
5 Kingdom of Sakartvelo (Georgia)
6 Grand Duchy of Novgorod
7 Principality of Cilician Armenia
8 Grand Duchy of Kiev
**possible final addition****Serbia
**possible final addition****Bulgaria

Pagan
9 Mongol Khanate (emerging faction)
10 Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Catholic
12 Kingdom of Jerusalem (emergent faction, triggered after successful Catholic crusade)
13 Kingdom of Sweden
14 Kingdom of Norway
15 Kingdom of Denmark
16 Crown of Aragon
17 Duchy of Bohemia
18 Kingdom of England
19 Kingdom of France
20 Holy Roman Empire
21 Kingdom of Hungary
22 Kingdom of Sicily
23 Kingdom of Leon-Castile
24 Kingdom of Poland
25 County of Portugal (Emergent faction)
26 Kingdom of Scotland
27 Republic of Venice
28 Republic of Genoa
29 Republic of Pisa
**possible final addition**** Republic of Milan

30 Papacy

31 Minor factions (Non-playable)

[nce_wht_guy]

what are the minor factions you plan to include?

[Hengest]

These are basically rebels. In 1080 they will be the Taifa states, Kypchaks, some French counties, Wales, Ireland and some Russian regions. As well as the Berbers and some Turkish regions. But we are putting a lot of work into the rebels and AI and they will cause a lot of problems for the player exactly because they are not fations with alliances/religious affiliation etc. We are even considering making the Mongols into a rebel faction just to make them more effective.

[EmperorCharles]

When you say the Kingdom of Jerusalem emerge after successful Catholic crusade how will this work? What will happen to my units within the city? Do I lose control of it?

[Pope Gregorius I]

so what if u do? tough luck thats what i say. Im pretty sure that is what the pope did. He crowned a foriegn General as the King of Jerusalem and gave him control of the city. If u watch Kingdom of Heaven they are all french so its kinda like france still owns the place bur for all of Christendom.

[EmperorCharles]

I'm not complaining just wondering is all.

[Confitemini in Domino]

so what if u do? tough luck thats what i say. Im pretty sure that is what the pope did. He crowned a foriegn General as the King of Jerusalem and gave him control of the city. If u watch Kingdom of Heaven they are all french so its kinda like france still owns the place bur for all of Christendom.

Sed Contra: Godfrey de Boulion was selected by the other lords of the First Crusade because among them he was the most pious. Pope Urban II approved and ratified the decision. The Kingdom of France did not really have anything to do with it, rather what was at work was what we call the Blood Royal. It was a concept understood and held sacred by almost all medievals that succession is hereditary unless there is no heir. Godfrey had no heir so they asked Baldwin who had become the Lord in Edessa to be the next king of Jerusalem when Godfrey died. From there the heirs were selected by family. Besides, the King of France had been excommunicated by the Pope at Clermont (the same time he made the call to Crusade) in 1095, and as such he could make no legitimate claim to any lands held by his nominal vassals, namely those lords who were on the first crusade.

Plus, Kingdom of heaven is not just bad history , it is super bad history. Virtually everything was backwards or invented. A real source for information on the crusades would be from books like "The Crusaders" by Regine Pernoud or "The Leper King and his heirs" by Bernard Hamilton, the latter of which deals explicitly with the period "covered" in kingdom of heaven.

[thelonius viking]

I'd go with the Abbasids in interest of game balance. Part of my disappointment with vanilla TW was the lack of muslim factions.

[King Yngvar]

Abbasids would not be the best choice, rather a muslim faction based around one of the cities in Syria; Aleppo, Damascus or something like that. Or perhaps the Atabek of Mosul.. The Abbasids were just puppets at the time.

Other then that, of those (since Ireland is cut out) I'd vote for Bulgaria, finally putting something between ERE and Hungary.

[Hengest]

Emperor Charles:
You will be given the option to keep control over the city you have won or to give it to another faction (Emergent Kingdom of Jerusalem) if you keep it you will piss off the Pope, if you give it up you will gain lots of bonuses perhaps even start with KoJ as your vassal, but I think we can script lots of things like cashflow and even units. We are trying to create as many double-options or dilemmas for the player as possible so that the game feels more like a RPG or a simulation of rulership with all its problems and possibilities.
We are talking about about an option where you could instead choose to change your faction to the KoJ after a successful crusade.
Personally I prefer the first choice.

[AnthoniusII]

That is...unique....

[Basileos]

well i prefer the second one because i'm very interested in KoJ; and in very good mods (like this one) it would be a shame if you can't play a very unique faction like KoJ.but hey,it's just an opinion.if it will be the first one it's fine for me too!

[King Yngvar]

You will be given the option to keep control over the city you have won or to give it to another faction (Emergent Kingdom of Jerusalem) if you keep it you will piss off the Pope, if you give it up you will gain lots of bonuses perhaps even start with KoJ as your vassal, but I think we can script lots of things like cashflow and even units. We are trying to create as many double-options or dilemmas for the player as possible so that the game feels more like a RPG or a simulation of rulership with all its problems and possibilities.
We are talking about about an option where you could instead choose to change your faction to the KoJ after a successful crusade.
Personally I prefer the first choice.

I definately like the idea to have a choice where you can create the kingdom of jerusalem, definately would like to choose wether they should be vassals or not, but they should at least be allies (with perfect relations and military access).

well i prefer the second one because i'm very interested in KoJ; and in very good mods (like this one) it would be a shame if you can't play a very unique faction like KoJ.but hey,it's just an opinion.if it will be the first one it's fine for me too!

Just make Jerusalem playable in the descr_strat, when Jerusalem is created in-game open console and type command: control Jerusalem.

EDIT: This must be done on hotseat, so make sure to launch the game on hotseat...

[Hengest]

Faction list updated with info about our consideration of Milan

[nce_wht_guy]

how are you going to work Bohrmia in?

[Hengest]

Not sure how you mean mate. They will be like any other faction.

They will start on friendly terms with the HRE and others. They will get diplomats all over the HRE to aid the AI in forging an alliance there. We will also bring some of the HRE tech tree into other factions, Specifically, some of the north Italian states and the Bohemia faction. This will be to represent that they are part of the confedaracy or political culture if not part of the same faction. Imperial City or Free City will be available depending on the relation with the HRE.

The Italian factions will have a unique governmental system which in cases where the faction is allied or a vassal of the HRE, certain governmental types will be activated such as the Podesta... This will have specific effects on your faction leader and how he interacts and rules his nobles. Bohemia will work in a similar fashion, obviously the 'rebel against the Empire' aspect will be available to you once you dare to take up the challenge.

[Echad]

Well, I think that Balkans really deserve the faction... Italy is too fragmented already to add Milan in, and the requirement of a faction in Mesopotamia depends on your map. Is there a preview, or just a description about where in the east will it end?

[King Yngvar]

I agree, there's always too much focus on Italy. Italy has 5 factions already in this mod. One country, 5 factions. It is already too much, please leave it at that. Why have not Ireland gotten a faction? It is one country, no factions. Take one of the overcrowded Italian ones and add it to Ireland.

[Lamanz]

I agree, there's always too much focus on Italy. Italy has 5 factions already in this mod. One country, 5 factions. It is already too much, please leave it at that. Why have not Ireland gotten a faction? It is one country, no factions. Take one of the overcrowded Italian ones and add it to Ireland.

Keep in mind Italy has very rarely been united as one country. The current country only came into being in 1870, I believe.

I wouldn't recommend adding Ireland because they very rarely, in SS 5.1 (which is my experience of a ported Ireland), leave Ireland, and thus are a placeholder and could easily be replaced with strong rebel holdings in Ireland.

[Hengest]

Because Ireland was not a unified faction that had no importance beyond its own borders and died out within one century of the mod. All the major Italian states were major powers for at least 400 years, were active and in conflict with several major factions and colonised distant areas of the map from the Crimea, the Levant and North Africa influencing huge cultures as well as being the richest and most densely populated areas of the map.