Need advice on Greek City states

[Javolenus]

Hi Guys,

I just started a campaign as Greek City States and already I'm in trouble. Any advice welcome. I'm playing XGM 5.6.2. on M/M. Here's what happened:

1. I took Crete no problem and spent money on trade infrastructure.
2. Seleucids declared war and blockaded all my ports and marched to my two Asia Minor cities.
3. Seeing all those Seleucid stacks bearing down on the Asia Minor cities, I sacked the cities myself to gain money and evacuated everyone to mainland Greece.
4. The Seleucids (obviously) took the two Asia Minor towns.
5. Expecting Macedon to attack (their spies were everywhere and I could see stacks massing) I spent money on troops and raised a full stack.
6. Now I am bankrupt and running a negative economy.
7. Macedon attacks. I look at my ruined economy. I look at the multiple Macedon stacks. Sigh.
8. Macedon offers me to become a protectorate. I ask for 10,000 in return and they agree.
9. I spend the money on both trade and military stuff.
10. Next turn I am bankrupt. Seleucids still blockading.
11. No money to raise diplomats or spies.
12. Macedon declares war again.
13. Then they ask for peace. I ask for 500 and they give it. But I'm still in negatives.
14. And so I attack Macedon with my stack and win a battle. I then take Patras.
15. But now 6 or 7 Macedon half stacks, plus a couple of full ones are bearing down on me. Athens is besieged. Seleucids still blockading. No money.
16. Decide to ask for advice.

I realise that I've probably made some fundamental error, but as I said before, any advice welcome.

But finally, on a positive note, units in XGM look fantastic. I especially like the Spartan Guard and the Greek General's bodyguard horses - those horses look and move great.

And the battlefield AI behaved well in my battle. For example, when fired on by archers, the AI retreated out of range - a sensible move. And after an initial beating, the AI rallied and came on again.

[Kara Kolyo]

Looks like you are in bad situation
Here's what i usually do as GCS - gather all my spare troops and attack Crete early on. Then attack Patras. Don't move against Macedon - on medium dif they usually waste their armies against Thermon. After taking Patras head for Halicarnasus. Get all hoplites, cretans and rhodians along the way. Don't abandon Pergamum - it's a cash cow. After Halicarnasus take Cyzicus. If the seleucids attack it is normaly with low level units - destroy those couple of stacks and take their western provinces. When this is done you should swim in money. That's about all.

[brandbll]

Yeah it looks like your in quite the sticky situation. I think your problem might be that you're spending too much money defending your cities. Pergamum starts off with a stone wall IIRC. The key to defending greek cities with stone walls is slingers. You can use them at the walls, then when the enemy gets to the wall, move them away to a different position(atleast 2 wall sections away from the invading enemy) and set them up there. Usually the enemy will run by and get slaughtered by your slingers. I held Pergamum as my only city in Asia minor for about 100 years using this strategy. Meanwhile constantly being attacked by stack after stack from Pontius. You have to remember that compared to other factions, GCS has very good defensive troops. Most of the time i let the enemy come into the city and run into walls of my phalangites.

It's going to be difficult to give you immediate information on how to right your ship though. We don't really know the full details of what your facing, and as you have acknowledged, you are in a pretty bad situation. Obviously, you need to make an offensive move. Either try and get your stack back over to Asia minor and take back Pergamum, or just start the attack against Macedon. You've sort of put yourself in a sink or swin situation. If your losing money you don't have a lot of time to tread water. So you need to make a decision, and if it doesn't work and you melt down; just take it as a learning experience and start over. It's the path i had to take when i started trying to use the Scythians.

[chazap]

post pics in the screen shot section so we can see exactly what's up...but, yeah, this will be a learning experience for your next campaign...


with that....i will assume you still have your initial 3 ships???? seperate them and put them near your blockaded ports....in essence, you are luring the Selucids from the port to attack your ships --freeing up your ports to allow money in...you start off with one diplomat, maybe 2....check to see if Selucia and Macedonia are allies...if so, maybe offer Athens (any city really) to Selucid Empire in exchange for peace...that will automatically call off the Macedonia attack...plus, the troops stationed in Athens will be low level, so when you are ready, just take it back!! sack town, generate money!!

well, i'm more of a visual helper....good luck....

[Ephialtes The Dog]

What I usually do as the GCS on M/H with economic boosts for the AI on is

1 Take Crete and the city on the hand of the Peloponessus that is owned by the rebels, usualy after the Macs try and take it.
2 Put all spare troops in Athens to defend against the Macedonian advance, I just sit there as they waste stack after stack trying to take it from me.
3 Build up my Asia minor cities as quickly as possible, both militarily and economicaly.
4 After mustering a good sized force (Several hoplites Phalangites and at least 2 Spartan Royal Gaurd) in Athens I recruit as many mercs as I can and then I take Patras.
5 Then I take the city from the Selucids that is in between Rhodes and Pergamum, Halicarnossos I think.
6 I know usualy have about 10,000 Denarii, so I either take the stack that is sitting in Patras and crush the Macs or I almost crush them and make them my Protectorate.

From this point you can do whatever you wan't, either take over Asia minor or invade Italy its up too you, just rember too have fun while your doing it.

[Javolenus]

Hi Ephialtes,

Thanks for this. Again, good advice, and more options to consider. This is great - now I have plenty of ideas to explore.

I don't know how the present (second) campaign will work out. Sounds like I still screwed up by not hanging on at Pergamum and then expanding into Asia Minor.

Anyway, I'll see how it goes. Thanks again!

[Javolenus]

That's really fantastic stuff guys - many thanks indeed for this input. You've given me lots of ideas to explore.

As it happens, I was in a no-win situation, so before reading these replies I started over.

Second time around I followed this plan:

1. Send diplomat off for trade rights.
2. Recruit spies and an assassin for intel and sabotage against Patras (and later, Corinth).
3. Spend money on troops, as balanced as possible.
4. I still opted to evacuate Pergamum, although, having read your suggestions, would not do this again. Anyway, I shipped the Pergamum garrison to Athens.
5. Seleucids attacked as before.
6. When I built up a full stack I broke my alliance with Macedon. By this time Macedon was besieging Patras.
7. I attacked and defeated the Macedon force besieging Patras, killing a top general. I took out another star general in Corinth, using an assassin, who by now had gained some experience. I also used him to sabotage barracks etc.
8. Macedon attacked and besieged Athens but is hampered because they're also fighting Thrace.
9. I retrained some troops and stormed Patras, killing another star general.
10. I scraped together as many troops as possible under my - by now - multi-starred general and relieved Athens, completely destroying the besieging Macedon army.

And that's as far as I've got. I still have problems. For example, my fleet got wiped out over several sea battles. My ports are still blockaded. I lost Pergamum. I never took Crete (as in the first campaign) and Rhodes is looking isolated. And although I've taken Patras and Corinth, the Macedonians could still concetrate their army against me.

But this time around my situation has improved.

And yet I think your gameplan sounds better. For example, I gave up Pergamum too easily, thinking it couldn't be defended and losing much income as a result.

Anyway, that's how things look. This new campaign has got off to an interesting start . . .

[brandbll]

Javolenus, glad to hear your second campaign is working out a little better. It's good that you have the lower penninsula of Greece, it should be easier to defend this way. The medditeranean islands are always isolated. But then again that is one of the perks of controlling them, no one attacks you by land.

[Ephialtes The Dog]

Great!

[Unknown Soldier]

Usually in the first season;

I move my general out of perganum and recruit all of the mercs in the area and return them all to the city - rhodian slingers, and cretean archers are a big defence winner.

Take all of your ships into the nearest friendly port to avoid the pirate/rebel/enemy fleets overwhelming you. You can be attacked multiple times by different enemies in succession and easily wipped out!

Then back in greece I recruit as many mercs as I can, combined with the garrisons of Athens and Sparta start on Corinth and the Macs on the second turn - leaving a unit or two of spearmen in each city.

The only thing to watch out for with the Macs is they have plenty of cavalry compared to you at the start.

[Kara Kolyo]

About the navies - i have found out that on M/M difficulty fleets of four ships do the job great. at the start as GCS you need to build only one more bireme for the first fleet. as the game advances the fleets are changed to triremes and then some heavier ships are included. The four biremes fleets can destroy the rebel navies without worries (if you use 3 ships they get owned, if 5 it's too much trouble to get them). At the early game the ai fleets are not too big too and can be dealt wit 4 units at a navy. I usually try to get at least 3 such fleets arround the first 10-15 turns and retrain them often.

[Unknown Soldier]

KK: I tend to use fleets of five

[Ephialtes The Dog]

I usually put 5 in a navy and then after conquering Macedon I group all my navies together into and uber stack that ferrys men across the Aegean to asia minor.

[Kara Kolyo]

the fleets of four are just for the initial stages on medium dif. later on i too increase the number of the ships. 4 is enough against pirates and ai fleets. When i see that the enemy starts to use more triremes - the naval race kicks off

[Javolenus]

Hi Guys,

This is great - I didn't even consider naval strategy but now I'm better prepared.

It's really interesting to get all these ideas for a campaign - keep 'em coming!

[Kara Kolyo]

Dude the Thalassocracy is vital for the greek campaigns. C'mon the greeks used the first lame excuse to jump on their ships and be away from home for ten years! And as if it's not enough Odysseus spent ten more years fooling arround. The poor Penelope have probably waved the first Bayeux tapestry waiting for him.
Seriously though you need strong navies with every Mediterranean faction.

[Javolenus]

Hi Kara Kolyo,

Thanks for this - I can see the sense in what you're saying about keeping a strong navy in the Med. But it's taken you guys to point it out, coz I'm not so familar with playing a Med strategy. Fingers crossed I keep things rollin' . . .

[Ephialtes The Dog]

I'm currently playing a m/h campaign with economic bonuses on as the GCS.
I now have one elite stack of about 2 Cretan archers, 5 Phalangites, 6 hoplites, 3 Spartan Royal Gaurd, 3 Bastarnae falxmen and one general.
My general is Leonidas of Sparta(you'll get him later on in the game) with this stack i'm about to take Constantinople.

Then I have another stack in Asia-minor of about 6 Cretan archers, 5 hoplites, 5 phalangites, 3 theruphoroi, and 1 general, with this stack i'm about to take the 2 nearest Selucid towns to Pergamum.

[cherryfunk]

Here's what i usually do as GCS - gather all my spare troops and attack Crete early on. Then attack Patras. Don't move against Macedon - on medium dif they usually waste their armies against Thermon. After taking Patras head for Halicarnasus. Get all hoplites, cretans and rhodians along the way. Don't abandon Pergamum - it's a cash cow. After Halicarnasus take Cyzicus. If the seleucids attack it is normaly with low level units - destroy those couple of stacks and take their western provinces. When this is done you should swim in money. That's about all.

This is the exact strategy I used to great effect. One thing I did was give Macedon regular tribute, to make them less likely to stab me in the back.

The last thing you want is a two front war. You don't have the resources to succeed. Focus on Asia Minor, those cities are RICH!

[Unknown Soldier]

Just played over the weekend - Selucids attacked perganum with an army that had four! yes four units of elephants in it, 6 ladders and 1 siege tower.

i had 3 cretan archer units in the garrison.

Carnage was satisfrying - Elephants came on one at a time to the gates and got cooked crispy in oil - lol

The ladders made it to the walls taking 75% casualties and the cliumbers all died when they got to the top.

The Tower well that was shocking - They managed to get to the wall and drop the bridge then a unit of cretan archers on an adjacent wall turned and fired fire arrows at it - two volleys later it collapsed in flames killing about 90% of the attackers the few who had got onto the wall died like their ladder climbing chums.

The remaining elephants rampaged through the selucide pike and cavalry and routed the rest of their army.

Selucide casualties ~2000+

Greeks dead heros ~ 100-

Crispy Elephant burgers all round!