Two Questions [Mods | Venice]

[Lothe]

Q1: Can i only have One mod applied to M2:TW at a time?

Q2: Does anyone else feel that the Venetian troops are weak/ish?

[eggthief]

Q1: most mods use a seperate folder and thus u can have multiple

Q2: every factions has it pros and cons, Venice has very cost effective militia and xbowmen and gets the VHI later on.

[TwoScoopsOfViking]

Yep most of the mods out there install into a seperate folder so you can launch them and still be able to run the vanilla game

[Lothe]

Awesome, multiple mods here i come!

And with Venice, I find the VHI to be very poor, am i missing something? My VHI only have an attack of 4, which in comparison to the Egyptian's... something starting with T, has an axe bla bla which has an attack of 8. I wont even try to compare them with Dism Normans. Infact my VHI could easily be as useful as an Armoured Sergeant!

[Pyrebound]

Hmm, VHI gets armor penetration which halves the enemy's 'Armor' level (just the armor, not DEFENCE value) which normans dont get. I do not know about the tabardiyyas, they might be more upper tier or more costy. Also, egypt is tougher to play in mtw as they get crusades called on them quite frequently. It is easier to be the pope's pet in italy

[Lothe]

Wow, I didnt know that!
So i guess Venice relies on Mercs for Shock Inf?

[NobleNick]

...So i guess Venice relies on Mercs for Shock Inf?

Maybe in the early game. Personally, I would just get more armored sergeants: They are plenty tough against early game units. Then there are Mounted Sergeants (att = 9+4, def = 13), which give plenty of shock, even if it is not infantry. But, if you want true shock infantry in the early game, then you will need mercs.

In the mid to late game, Venetian Heavy Infantry (VHI) are arguably among the most cost effective troops in the game (att = 16AP, def = 16, upkeep = 150/turn). Their 16 Armor Piercing attack is the equivalent of 17 or 18 (non-AP) against most targets they will meet. This is a very high attack, easily on the high end of all but the most elite shock troops. And their 16 defense makes them armored shock troops. No need to get mercs when you have these guys.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I conquered the entire middle east with nothing but Italian Spear Militia and VHI.

[NobleNick]

I conquered the entire middle east with nothing but Italian Spear Militia and VHI.

War_Mongor has a good point: the Italian spear militia upkeep is 125, compared to the Armored Sergeants 155. The stats are:

Italian Spear Mil  att=7+8AC  def=13 (Schiltrom) morale=5  cost=460/125
Armored Sergeants  att=7+8AC  def=14 (Schiltrom) morale=5  cost=540/155

Plus, the ISM can upgrade 1,2,3 and are free militia in cities; whereas the AS get only 2,3, and are not free upkeep. So ISM will likely have at least as good stats, but cost less.

[Old Geezer]

The cost savings of the Italian Spear Militia is an excellent point. Both the ISM and VHI with weapons upgrade, some armor for the ISM, and some experience makes them very effective. Coupled with the crossbowmen and mounted sergeants these make for a fearsome, if not flashy, army. If the AI knew how to handle these units effectively, it could trash everyone else in the early campaign game and make it much more difficult for the human player. As it is, the AI Italian factions field too few cavalry, send pavaise crossbowmen way out too far ahead of their spears, and attack even when outnumbered. As NobleNick points out the stats and costs - why bother with armored sergeants? Well, I do recruit a few them just for variety. Once you get Hospitalers and hire some fast mercenary cavalry (to counter horse archers and chase down routing general bodyguards) you are in for some real fun blitzing as any of the Italian factions.